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>So if Apple is “crushing innovation” where are all of the successful Android only apps? Like Firefox and other proper browsers (not just Safari reskins)? ;-)

>So if Apple is “crushing innovation” where are all of the successful Android only apps? Like Firefox and other proper browsers (not just Safari reskins)? ;-) And other stuff like emulators and on-device development environments, software under GPLv3 and others.

scarface74 7y ago
I wouldn’t call Firefox “innovative” it’s just another web browser. It’s not exactly winning over hearts and minds on the other platforms where it’s available - Windows, Macs, or Android. And “successful” as in “makes decent money”. It’s the authors choice to use a license that’s its incompatible with Apple’s policies. You are free to have open source software and publish it on github and run it on iOS. Also if you are the legal rights holder of the emulated system, you are free to distribute your emulator with games - see Sega.
- Iolaum 7y ago
  Firefox is doing a lot of innovation in the privacy sector. One extreme example is the TOR browser.
- izacus 7y ago
  > I wouldn’t call Firefox “innovative” it’s just another web browser. So basically you'll just be moving the goalposts until you prove Apple is the only innovative company around? Right.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    No, in a capitalist system a product is successful when it’s profitable. Even if you are just looking for ubiquity and not looking for profitability, Firefox doesn’t exactly win there either. You should be able to find one worldwide or at least nationwide mass market success that is successful on Android that isn’t available on Apple. iOS has about the same marketshare in mobile that Macs have in the PC market. You can find plenty of Windows only successful software that is massively profitable. Where is the same software for Android?
    - BubRoss 7y ago
      Firefox is extremely profitable. Years ago they took in 30 million per year just by having google as their default search engine.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        How much of that is just Android and how does Apple stop them from using the same monetization scheme and stop their “innovation”?
        BubRoss 7y ago
        I don't know what you mean by 'just android', they get paid when people use the search bar. Apple does not allow other browsers, I think you have been told this elsewhere in this thread.
        scarface74 7y ago
        Firefox is available on iOS and even though it uses the WebKit browser, it still uses Google for search. Or do you think that when someone uses Firefox on iOS that doesn’t count as far as monetization? I’ve also been “told” that Apple doesn’t allow subscriptions outside of the App Store. That clearly isn’t the case.
    - thawaway1837 7y ago
      Talk about moving goalposts. Not only did you move them, you also redefined success.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        How do you define success if not revenue or popularity?
    - AnthonyMouse 7y ago
      > You can find plenty of Windows only successful software that is massively profitable. Where is the same software for Android? The software that is Windows-only isn't the most successful stuff that everybody has heard of (e.g. Office, Adobe, Chrome), that's the stuff available for both because it has enough demand to justify development even for smaller platforms. The Windows-only applications are the ones with a niche. It's the control application for some piece of industrial equipment, or some line-of-business application, and then you need Windows because you have that equipment or you're in that line of business. And it's the same thing for Android. They can only justify development for one platform so they choose the most popular one. They're just not apps you'll have heard of if you aren't in that niche. It's even moreso for Android because many types of applications are prohibited by Apple. Like what's the best BitTorrent app for iPhone? File manager? Remote desktop? Screen recording? Even the popular apps that exist on both platforms aren't as good on iOS. Firefox has to use Safari under the hood. Maybe that doesn't matter to you. Until the "Firefox" you want to run is Tor Browser, which is designed to resist client fingerprinting in ways that Safari isn't, and then the inability to use that on iOS compromises your security. Similarly, the way Signal does backups on Android (i.e. with its characteristically diligent security properties) isn't allowed on iOS, so it doesn't support backups on iOS at all. So even for apps that exist on both, on iOS they're not as good.

scarface74 7y ago

I wouldn’t call Firefox “innovative” it’s just another web browser. It’s not exactly winning over hearts and minds on the other platforms where it’s available - Windows, Macs, or Android. And “successful” as in “makes decent money”. It’s the authors choice to use a license that’s its incompatible with Apple’s policies. You are free to have open source software and publish it on github and run it on iOS. Also if you are the legal rights holder of the emulated system, you are free to distribute your emulator with games - see Sega.

Iolaum 7y ago
Firefox is doing a lot of innovation in the privacy sector. One extreme example is the TOR browser.
izacus 7y ago
> I wouldn’t call Firefox “innovative” it’s just another web browser. So basically you'll just be moving the goalposts until you prove Apple is the only innovative company around? Right.
- scarface74 7y ago
  No, in a capitalist system a product is successful when it’s profitable. Even if you are just looking for ubiquity and not looking for profitability, Firefox doesn’t exactly win there either. You should be able to find one worldwide or at least nationwide mass market success that is successful on Android that isn’t available on Apple. iOS has about the same marketshare in mobile that Macs have in the PC market. You can find plenty of Windows only successful software that is massively profitable. Where is the same software for Android?
  - BubRoss 7y ago
    Firefox is extremely profitable. Years ago they took in 30 million per year just by having google as their default search engine.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      How much of that is just Android and how does Apple stop them from using the same monetization scheme and stop their “innovation”?
      - BubRoss 7y ago
        I don't know what you mean by 'just android', they get paid when people use the search bar. Apple does not allow other browsers, I think you have been told this elsewhere in this thread.
        scarface74 7y ago
        Firefox is available on iOS and even though it uses the WebKit browser, it still uses Google for search. Or do you think that when someone uses Firefox on iOS that doesn’t count as far as monetization? I’ve also been “told” that Apple doesn’t allow subscriptions outside of the App Store. That clearly isn’t the case.
  - thawaway1837 7y ago
    Talk about moving goalposts. Not only did you move them, you also redefined success.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      How do you define success if not revenue or popularity?
  - AnthonyMouse 7y ago
    > You can find plenty of Windows only successful software that is massively profitable. Where is the same software for Android? The software that is Windows-only isn't the most successful stuff that everybody has heard of (e.g. Office, Adobe, Chrome), that's the stuff available for both because it has enough demand to justify development even for smaller platforms. The Windows-only applications are the ones with a niche. It's the control application for some piece of industrial equipment, or some line-of-business application, and then you need Windows because you have that equipment or you're in that line of business. And it's the same thing for Android. They can only justify development for one platform so they choose the most popular one. They're just not apps you'll have heard of if you aren't in that niche. It's even moreso for Android because many types of applications are prohibited by Apple. Like what's the best BitTorrent app for iPhone? File manager? Remote desktop? Screen recording? Even the popular apps that exist on both platforms aren't as good on iOS. Firefox has to use Safari under the hood. Maybe that doesn't matter to you. Until the "Firefox" you want to run is Tor Browser, which is designed to resist client fingerprinting in ways that Safari isn't, and then the inability to use that on iOS compromises your security. Similarly, the way Signal does backups on Android (i.e. with its characteristically diligent security properties) isn't allowed on iOS, so it doesn't support backups on iOS at all. So even for apps that exist on both, on iOS they're not as good.