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> Cars and suburbia are destructive: That may be the thing which saves the US in a pandemic like this. Gotta love the constant car hate that is usually couple

> Cars and suburbia are destructive: That may be the thing which saves the US in a pandemic like this. Gotta love the constant car hate that is usually coupled with an anti-development NIMBY attitude that prevents denser cities.

ericmay 7y ago
It is likely to help, of course, but it's a happy accident and doesn't come close to making up for the amount of pollution, deaths, and money spent on this unnecessary structure.
- cscurmudgeon 7y ago
  There are other ways of reducing pollution and deaths without making us live on top of one another. Also, not everyone can afford to live in dense cities. Cities may be even worse in terms of pollution if we cared to look at data rather. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-myth-of-the-sustainable-city/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-myth-of-the-s... Urban areas are usually celebrated for their energy efficiency and low per capita carbon dioxide emissions, but such accounting ignores how and where they acquire their resources Poor people commute for miles to denser cities for jobs everyday not because they want to pollute but because they have no other choice. It is usually the poor racial minorities who end up commuting for hours daily. https://www.abc10.com/article/traffic/she-commutes-from-stockton-to-san-francisco-for-work-shes-not-alone/103-545961772 https://www.abc10.com/article/traffic/she-commutes-from-stoc...
  - dodobirdlord 7y ago
    These criticisms (cost, commuting time, pollution) point to a need for more urbanism and increased density.
    - cscurmudgeon 7y ago
      If you don't actually look at the data, yes that is the conclusion.
  - ericmay 7y ago
    I think this is a great video that you might enjoy that would help inform the perspective I'm taking here: https://www.ted.com/talks/jeff_speck_the_walkable_city/transcript https://www.ted.com/talks/jeff_speck_the_walkable_city/trans... And yes, you're right, people with less economic means aren't commuting for fun, but cars just enable that. If you don't have a car and can't commute, either you move closer to your job or your job has to move closer to you.
    - cscurmudgeon 7y ago
      > If you don't have a car and can't commute, either you move closer to your job or Totally, everyone can afford to move to SF right?
      - ericmay 7y ago
        No, and they shouldn’t.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
nnvvhh 7y ago
To me car haters are pro-development. Have you really encountered people holding both of the views you described?
opportune 7y ago
Those are usually two entirely separate groups of people. The anti-car people are usually always pro-density and development
llampx 7y ago
Is it saving the US right now?
tonyedgecombe 7y ago
There seems to be some evidence that exposure to pollution exacerbates the disease. Car culture may be making it worse.
burlesona 7y ago
While some people do hate cars, I think most of the people who speak against cars are really speaking more against the land use patterns that make us fully dependent on cars. As far as the pandemic, it's interesting that it's obvious to most folks that people riding the subway to work in a big office tower represent a lot of concentration and exposure, but not so obvious that the people driving in from many miles around to the Costco also represent a similar concentration and exposure. If you'd like a more detailed explanation of this, I found this article really thoughtful: https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/3/25/effective-quarantines-and-strong-towns https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/3/25/effective-quar...

ericmay 7y ago

It is likely to help, of course, but it's a happy accident and doesn't come close to making up for the amount of pollution, deaths, and money spent on this unnecessary structure.

cscurmudgeon 7y ago
There are other ways of reducing pollution and deaths without making us live on top of one another. Also, not everyone can afford to live in dense cities. Cities may be even worse in terms of pollution if we cared to look at data rather. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-myth-of-the-sustainable-city/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-myth-of-the-s... Urban areas are usually celebrated for their energy efficiency and low per capita carbon dioxide emissions, but such accounting ignores how and where they acquire their resources Poor people commute for miles to denser cities for jobs everyday not because they want to pollute but because they have no other choice. It is usually the poor racial minorities who end up commuting for hours daily. https://www.abc10.com/article/traffic/she-commutes-from-stockton-to-san-francisco-for-work-shes-not-alone/103-545961772 https://www.abc10.com/article/traffic/she-commutes-from-stoc...
- dodobirdlord 7y ago
  These criticisms (cost, commuting time, pollution) point to a need for more urbanism and increased density.
  - cscurmudgeon 7y ago
    If you don't actually look at the data, yes that is the conclusion.
- ericmay 7y ago
  I think this is a great video that you might enjoy that would help inform the perspective I'm taking here: https://www.ted.com/talks/jeff_speck_the_walkable_city/transcript https://www.ted.com/talks/jeff_speck_the_walkable_city/trans... And yes, you're right, people with less economic means aren't commuting for fun, but cars just enable that. If you don't have a car and can't commute, either you move closer to your job or your job has to move closer to you.
  - cscurmudgeon 7y ago
    > If you don't have a car and can't commute, either you move closer to your job or Totally, everyone can afford to move to SF right?
    - ericmay 7y ago
      No, and they shouldn’t.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

nnvvhh 7y ago

To me car haters are pro-development. Have you really encountered people holding both of the views you described?

opportune 7y ago

Those are usually two entirely separate groups of people. The anti-car people are usually always pro-density and development

llampx 7y ago

Is it saving the US right now?

tonyedgecombe 7y ago

There seems to be some evidence that exposure to pollution exacerbates the disease. Car culture may be making it worse.

burlesona 7y ago

While some people do hate cars, I think most of the people who speak against cars are really speaking more against the land use patterns that make us fully dependent on cars. As far as the pandemic, it's interesting that it's obvious to most folks that people riding the subway to work in a big office tower represent a lot of concentration and exposure, but not so obvious that the people driving in from many miles around to the Costco also represent a similar concentration and exposure. If you'd like a more detailed explanation of this, I found this article really thoughtful: https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/3/25/effective-quarantines-and-strong-towns https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/3/25/effective-quar...