4 ms·

>The reason we don't build out of stone/brick, besides cost of construction, is that they're terrible insulators. So your heating or AC bill is going to go abso

by Bayart 7y ago

>The reason we don't build out of stone/brick, besides cost of construction, is that they're terrible insulators. So your heating or AC bill is going to go absolutely through the roof. I'm writing this from a perfectly insulated 200 years old stone house. We've got access to a wide array of insulation technology in Europe, often in the form of panels that can be used to renovate an older building. And you can just blast insulation on the bottom part of a roof, which costs a penny and takes care of a most of your thermal dissipation. Plus insulation is getting subsidized when the government wants to save energy. >"Solid" sounds like a big waste of money to me. Paying for a paper house sounds like a scam to me.

umvi 7y ago
Instead of thinking in hyperbole, think in CS terms: "Solid" houses are "immutable", and "paper" houses are "mutable". I recently redid some plumbing in my "paper" house. It was real easy: shut off the water, cut some dry wall, make the fix, put some drywall back in, plaster, and paint. How would this work in a solid house? Do I need to jackhammer through stone and then mix concrete to seal it back up when I'm done?
- NanoWar 7y ago
  Yep. It's a ton of dirt
- laurencerowe 7y ago
  Pipes tend to be exposed in brick houses so you don’t need to tear the wall down when you have a leak.
- avmich 7y ago
  You don't. You really don't need that for years and years in a row. When you need, you do need some tools though. I see we can have all kinds of analogies; I guess habits play a big role here. Different places in USA have different house styles - it's a big country.
- Bayart 7y ago
  >How would this work in a solid house? I've got copper tubing running along the bottom of the walls and going through inner walls and flooring. I can't think of anything going through the outer walls. We've got an antenna cable routed through a window frame.
crazygringo 7y ago
I seriously don't understand this seeming cultural hate for wooden houses. Where is it coming from? Because it's just not based in any kind of reality. Look, you're emotionally attached to the kind of house construction you grew up in as a kid. I can get that. But do you realize how freezing it gets in the northeast USA here? When it's -10°C or -20°C, I don't care how insulated your roof is, your walls matter a ton. Stone makes zero sense. And even suppose you wanted a house made out of stone. It would just so much more expensive to build it's crazy. People don't have the money for it. There's zero "scam" here. Our houses are not "paper". You do realize we're not building houses out of plywood sheets, right? That we use strong wooden beams that can be covered in whatever siding material you want? And that wooden houses aren't a "new cheap" thing -- I had friends in high school who lived in 150-year-old wooden houses. They're wonderful and charming, full of history. Seriously. I do not understand this prejudice at all. Where does it come from? Like, do you see news photos of destruction of trailer parks in hurricanes and blindly assume that's what happens to our houses (totally different thing) with a slight gust of wind? Because that's seriously the only thing I can guess here.
- Bayart 7y ago
  >I seriously don't understand this seeming cultural hate for wooden houses. Well, we do come from societies where having a house made of stone meant it wouldn't entirely burn in the next war. >Look, you're emotionally attached to the kind of house construction you grew up in as a kid. I can get that. This isn't some misplaced nostalgia for archaic traditions. It's how everybody lives on my fucking continent. >But do you realize how freezing it gets in the northeast USA here? When it's -10°C or -20°C, I don't care how insulated your roof is, your walls matter a ton. Stone makes zero sense. I honestly couldn't tell how right or wrong you are. On one hand the countries I know that reach those temperatures do like wooden houses, on the other hand they have an overabundance of timber. In any case it's entirely irrelevant to the weather in most of the US, where they still build like that. >And even suppose you wanted a house made out of stone. It would just so much more expensive to build it's crazy. People don't have the money for it. Our cheap default building material is concrete blocks. But stone is still an option. >And that wooden houses aren't a "new cheap" thing -- I had friends in high school who lived in 150-year-old wooden houses. They're wonderful and charming, full of history. I have a 700 year old house round the corner. I don't know of any wooden building in the area older than the late 1600s. It's just not made to last. >Where does it come from? France. >Like, do you see news photos of destruction of trailer parks in hurricanes and blindly assume that's what happens to our houses (totally different thing) with a slight gust of wind? Because that's seriously the only thing I can guess here. Well, everybody's seen those images of houses torn by tornadoes, or rotting from flooding, or burned to a crisp, or just crumbling after a few decades of neglect. I'm looking into buying at the moment, and I've got my eyes on a few houses. All traditional houses made out of thick granite as we do here. The idea that someone would take on a debt that possibly spans decades over something that's not literally rock-solid is mind-boggling to me. So, yeah, it might be entirely cultural. But that's still one thing on which I'll never give an inch.

by Bayart 7y ago

umvi 7y ago

Instead of thinking in hyperbole, think in CS terms: "Solid" houses are "immutable", and "paper" houses are "mutable". I recently redid some plumbing in my "paper" house. It was real easy: shut off the water, cut some dry wall, make the fix, put some drywall back in, plaster, and paint. How would this work in a solid house? Do I need to jackhammer through stone and then mix concrete to seal it back up when I'm done?

NanoWar 7y ago
Yep. It's a ton of dirt
laurencerowe 7y ago
Pipes tend to be exposed in brick houses so you don’t need to tear the wall down when you have a leak.
avmich 7y ago
You don't. You really don't need that for years and years in a row. When you need, you do need some tools though. I see we can have all kinds of analogies; I guess habits play a big role here. Different places in USA have different house styles - it's a big country.
Bayart 7y ago
>How would this work in a solid house? I've got copper tubing running along the bottom of the walls and going through inner walls and flooring. I can't think of anything going through the outer walls. We've got an antenna cable routed through a window frame.

crazygringo 7y ago

I seriously don't understand this seeming cultural hate for wooden houses. Where is it coming from? Because it's just not based in any kind of reality. Look, you're emotionally attached to the kind of house construction you grew up in as a kid. I can get that. But do you realize how freezing it gets in the northeast USA here? When it's -10°C or -20°C, I don't care how insulated your roof is, your walls matter a ton. Stone makes zero sense. And even suppose you wanted a house made out of stone. It would just so much more expensive to build it's crazy. People don't have the money for it. There's zero "scam" here. Our houses are not "paper". You do realize we're not building houses out of plywood sheets, right? That we use strong wooden beams that can be covered in whatever siding material you want? And that wooden houses aren't a "new cheap" thing -- I had friends in high school who lived in 150-year-old wooden houses. They're wonderful and charming, full of history. Seriously. I do not understand this prejudice at all. Where does it come from? Like, do you see news photos of destruction of trailer parks in hurricanes and blindly assume that's what happens to our houses (totally different thing) with a slight gust of wind? Because that's seriously the only thing I can guess here.

Bayart 7y ago
>I seriously don't understand this seeming cultural hate for wooden houses. Well, we do come from societies where having a house made of stone meant it wouldn't entirely burn in the next war. >Look, you're emotionally attached to the kind of house construction you grew up in as a kid. I can get that. This isn't some misplaced nostalgia for archaic traditions. It's how everybody lives on my fucking continent. >But do you realize how freezing it gets in the northeast USA here? When it's -10°C or -20°C, I don't care how insulated your roof is, your walls matter a ton. Stone makes zero sense. I honestly couldn't tell how right or wrong you are. On one hand the countries I know that reach those temperatures do like wooden houses, on the other hand they have an overabundance of timber. In any case it's entirely irrelevant to the weather in most of the US, where they still build like that. >And even suppose you wanted a house made out of stone. It would just so much more expensive to build it's crazy. People don't have the money for it. Our cheap default building material is concrete blocks. But stone is still an option. >And that wooden houses aren't a "new cheap" thing -- I had friends in high school who lived in 150-year-old wooden houses. They're wonderful and charming, full of history. I have a 700 year old house round the corner. I don't know of any wooden building in the area older than the late 1600s. It's just not made to last. >Where does it come from? France. >Like, do you see news photos of destruction of trailer parks in hurricanes and blindly assume that's what happens to our houses (totally different thing) with a slight gust of wind? Because that's seriously the only thing I can guess here. Well, everybody's seen those images of houses torn by tornadoes, or rotting from flooding, or burned to a crisp, or just crumbling after a few decades of neglect. I'm looking into buying at the moment, and I've got my eyes on a few houses. All traditional houses made out of thick granite as we do here. The idea that someone would take on a debt that possibly spans decades over something that's not literally rock-solid is mind-boggling to me. So, yeah, it might be entirely cultural. But that's still one thing on which I'll never give an inch.