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Doesn't this require a full dump/import? Can you stream from a primary server w/out checksums to a replica that has checksums enabled? Or does this fall into t

by scurvy 7y ago

Doesn't this require a full dump/import? Can you stream from a primary server w/out checksums to a replica that has checksums enabled? Or does this fall into the "everything neat with PostgreSQL requires major downtime" category? (features, version upgrades, etc).

jeffdavis 7y ago
No dump/reload, but you do need to shut down the server cleanly, enable checksums[1], and start it back up. Note that enabling checksums is expensive, but not as expensive as dump/reload. [1] https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/app-pgchecksums.html https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/app-pgchecksums.html
- scurvy 7y ago
  That tool is only available in the latest versions of Postgresql (11 and 12), which very few stable shops are running in production. Checksums were introduced in 9.3, yet not made the default until 9.6. Converting it requires lengthy downtime, back to the original author's point of major version upgrade pain. Everything worthwhile in PG is introduced over a long time, requires a lot of pain to adopt, and if not adopted quickly, suddenly becomes "lol why aren't you doing this it's been there for years." That's the disconnect between people who actually run these clusters and the somewhat ivory-tower views of the postgresql devlopers.
  - jeffdavis 7y ago
    The postgres developers are not living in an ivory tower, they are solving real problems for real customers. There is so much enthusiasm that the original author felt there was not enough dissent. Maybe you should learn and understand why people are happy with postgres in the first place, and then understand your complaints in that broader picture. Then you wouldn't resort to mockery and other unproductive comments.
    - scurvy 7y ago
      I'm not resorting to mockery. I'm sympathizing with the original article's pain. Everything worthwhile in Postgresql involves major downtime and pain to adopt. It's not nearly as seamless as other RDBMS. That was his point, and that is mine. I use checksums as an example, but it is relevant to major version upgrades and other feature introductions. I don't understand why it takes 4 releases before a tool like pg_checksum becomes available after the larger feature is introduced. If the whole thing isn't ready, don't release it. I'm not saying it's easy. I never said it was.
  - mb4nck 7y ago
    There is a fork/spoon here, which supports 9.4+: https://github.com/credativ/pg_checksums https://github.com/credativ/pg_checksums It is also available as a Debian package for the above versions via apt.postgresql.org.

by scurvy 7y ago

jeffdavis 7y ago

No dump/reload, but you do need to shut down the server cleanly, enable checksums[1], and start it back up. Note that enabling checksums is expensive, but not as expensive as dump/reload. [1] https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/app-pgchecksums.html https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/app-pgchecksums.html

scurvy 7y ago
That tool is only available in the latest versions of Postgresql (11 and 12), which very few stable shops are running in production. Checksums were introduced in 9.3, yet not made the default until 9.6. Converting it requires lengthy downtime, back to the original author's point of major version upgrade pain. Everything worthwhile in PG is introduced over a long time, requires a lot of pain to adopt, and if not adopted quickly, suddenly becomes "lol why aren't you doing this it's been there for years." That's the disconnect between people who actually run these clusters and the somewhat ivory-tower views of the postgresql devlopers.
- jeffdavis 7y ago
  The postgres developers are not living in an ivory tower, they are solving real problems for real customers. There is so much enthusiasm that the original author felt there was not enough dissent. Maybe you should learn and understand why people are happy with postgres in the first place, and then understand your complaints in that broader picture. Then you wouldn't resort to mockery and other unproductive comments.
  - scurvy 7y ago
    I'm not resorting to mockery. I'm sympathizing with the original article's pain. Everything worthwhile in Postgresql involves major downtime and pain to adopt. It's not nearly as seamless as other RDBMS. That was his point, and that is mine. I use checksums as an example, but it is relevant to major version upgrades and other feature introductions. I don't understand why it takes 4 releases before a tool like pg_checksum becomes available after the larger feature is introduced. If the whole thing isn't ready, don't release it. I'm not saying it's easy. I never said it was.
- mb4nck 7y ago
  There is a fork/spoon here, which supports 9.4+: https://github.com/credativ/pg_checksums https://github.com/credativ/pg_checksums It is also available as a Debian package for the above versions via apt.postgresql.org.