> I dislike the cybernetic approach because I find that it first commits to epistemic helplessness The confusion here is that my statement has nothing to do wi

> I dislike the cybernetic approach because I find that it first commits to epistemic helplessness The confusion here is that my statement has nothing to do with cybernetics. Although it’s taken from his book titled Cybernetics, almost 60% of the book isn’t about cybernetics but instead a philosophy and analysis of Science as it progresses through history. Though it’s fair to Wiener to preemptively note there is no failure in epistemology in one of the most successful theories which holds ground in neurons, to electrical circuits, traffic engineering, the abstract feedback loop. There’s no assumption that “we know nothing of particles”. Wiener originally wrote the book in 1948 and completed the second edition in 1961. He made significant contributions to quantum mechanics[0]. It’s quite suspect to make such a defamatory remark about Wiener’s cybernetics given his quantum knowledge and the field as a whole. In fact, what would cybernetics possibly be predicting about the interactions between a particular system of which each component cannot exhibit a property? Surely some property must be being reinforced by means of itself or another auxiliary property. QM & Cybernetics answer completely separate questions. You’re missing the bigger picture. The irreversibility in any physical phenomenon is only through scientific paradigms which are probabilistic—such as thermodynamics, temperature, cloud, turbulence etc. These concepts are simply more powerful in dynamical systems, which are always due to microscopic phenomena, where there are no analytical, deterministic solutions for the otherwise favored deterministic paradigms (e.g. three-body problem). “while when a great number of atoms (of the order of Avogadro’s number) is considered, this energy related to irreversibility becomes so large that its order of magnitude must be taken into account. Consequently, macroscopic irreversibility results related to microscopic irreversibility by flows of photons and amount of atoms involved in the processes.” [0] https://www.ams.org/books/psapm/052/psapm052-endmatter.pdf https://www.ams.org/books/psapm/052/psapm052-endmatter.pdf [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/srep35796 https://www.nature.com/articles/srep35796