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Is China not a super power? Europe?

dntbnmpls 7y ago
> Is China not a super power? No. They are a regional power at best. > Europe? Given the number of US bases in Europe, I'd says no. A superpower by definition wouldn't need other countries defending it.
- lm28469 7y ago
  If China isn't a superpower I don't know who is. Either 2nd or 3rd by gdp [0], literally building the vast majority of the world tech, leading in renewable energy [1], largest army in the world, in the top 3 of military strength ranking [2]. Economically invading Europe [3]. Playing the smart game in Africa [4], and the list goes on and on. If anything the US is on the way down while china is on their way up, seeing it from the outside it looks like the US is slowly rotting away and getting soft while china is aggressively expanding and starting to set their own conditions. The thing is that China hasn't peaked yet while the US arguably peaked in the 90s. Don't get me wrong, China is very far from being a nice place, but they know what they're doing. > Given the number of US bases in Europe, I'd says no. A superpower by definition wouldn't need other countries defending it. It's more like the US are happy to have a presence in Europe than the other way around. These are leftovers of ww2 and aren't for defense anymore, as it turns out it's very convenient to have presence in europe when you want to go lose a war or two in the middle east. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_China [2] https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp [3] https://www.npr.org/2018/10/09/642587456/chinese-firms-now-hold-stakes-in-over-a-dozen-european-ports https://www.npr.org/2018/10/09/642587456/chinese-firms-now-h... [4] https://qz.com/1550626/chinas-investment-will-allow-africa-to-lead-the-22nd-century/ https://qz.com/1550626/chinas-investment-will-allow-africa-t...
  - chiph 7y ago
    China is almost a superpower. They have the beginnings of a blue-water navy, which a primary requirement for projecting force beyond your borders. So far as economics, they are indeed very powerful because they became the low-cost manufacturing center of the world. As seen in the past, those jobs can easily leave a nation for another country/region when it becomes cheaper. As their standard of living increases, this is more and more likely to happen. > These are leftovers of ww2 and aren't for defense anymore Ask the residents of Estonia (a NATO member) if they'd like to return to living under the Soviets.
  - dntbnmpls 7y ago
    > Either 2nd or 3rd by gdp [0] Japan was 2nd or 3rd by GDP for longer than china, they were never a superpower. > literally building the vast majority of the world tech, leading in renewable energy [1] And? > largest army in the world And the 2nd largest army is the indian army. Are they are superpower? > in the top 3 of military strength ranking Wasn't iraq in the top 5? There is quite a drop from #1 and the rest. > Economically invading Europe [3]. Invading a much wealthier region? Using your logic, europe has invaded china even more considering how much investment europe has in china. > Playing the smart game in Africa [4] "Smart game"? You mean trading? This is the problem with reading so much news/propaganda. You start parroting them without bothering to think. > and the list goes on and on. I bet it does, but nothing on the list will show china to be a superpower. > If anything the US is on the way down while china is on their way up Definitely china is on the way up relative to the US. But that doesn't make them a superpower. >It's more like the US are happy to have a presence in Europe than the other way around. Whatever the reason, the point is Europe can't be a superpower when it has foreign military/occupation presence. It's conceivable that china or europe may one day be a superpower, but neither are at the moment.
    - lm28469 7y ago
      You're refuting all the points by saying "X country also as Y attribute" but what you fail to grasp is that China is one of the only country that combines all at the same time. Japan might have a good gdp but you can nuke then out of existence with a few bombs. Iraq might have a good army but they're not anywhere close to an economical power. > There is quite a drop from #1 and the rest. Not really https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp > the point is Europe can't be a superpower when it has foreign military/occupation presence Maybe, maybe not, if we start making up our own definitions of a superpower it's going to be a long discussion.
im3w1l 7y ago
China is on the path to become a super power, maybe you could say they are already there. But they haven't seriously started flexing yet.
vharuck 7y ago
They are superpowers, but the US is a hyperpower. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperpower https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperpower
- NotSammyHagar 7y ago
  I think it's only likely the US has been losing power past few years. Our long-term potential for the US economy should have been reduced by our lifespans reducing educational and infrastructure spending reducing centralizing wealth in the wealthy, more in the 0.1%.

> Is China not a super power? No. They are a regional power at best. > Europe? Given the number of US bases in Europe, I'd says no. A superpower by definition wouldn't need other countries defending it.

lm28469 7y ago
If China isn't a superpower I don't know who is. Either 2nd or 3rd by gdp [0], literally building the vast majority of the world tech, leading in renewable energy [1], largest army in the world, in the top 3 of military strength ranking [2]. Economically invading Europe [3]. Playing the smart game in Africa [4], and the list goes on and on. If anything the US is on the way down while china is on their way up, seeing it from the outside it looks like the US is slowly rotting away and getting soft while china is aggressively expanding and starting to set their own conditions. The thing is that China hasn't peaked yet while the US arguably peaked in the 90s. Don't get me wrong, China is very far from being a nice place, but they know what they're doing. > Given the number of US bases in Europe, I'd says no. A superpower by definition wouldn't need other countries defending it. It's more like the US are happy to have a presence in Europe than the other way around. These are leftovers of ww2 and aren't for defense anymore, as it turns out it's very convenient to have presence in europe when you want to go lose a war or two in the middle east. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_China [2] https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp [3] https://www.npr.org/2018/10/09/642587456/chinese-firms-now-hold-stakes-in-over-a-dozen-european-ports https://www.npr.org/2018/10/09/642587456/chinese-firms-now-h... [4] https://qz.com/1550626/chinas-investment-will-allow-africa-to-lead-the-22nd-century/ https://qz.com/1550626/chinas-investment-will-allow-africa-t...
- chiph 7y ago
  China is almost a superpower. They have the beginnings of a blue-water navy, which a primary requirement for projecting force beyond your borders. So far as economics, they are indeed very powerful because they became the low-cost manufacturing center of the world. As seen in the past, those jobs can easily leave a nation for another country/region when it becomes cheaper. As their standard of living increases, this is more and more likely to happen. > These are leftovers of ww2 and aren't for defense anymore Ask the residents of Estonia (a NATO member) if they'd like to return to living under the Soviets.
- dntbnmpls 7y ago
  > Either 2nd or 3rd by gdp [0] Japan was 2nd or 3rd by GDP for longer than china, they were never a superpower. > literally building the vast majority of the world tech, leading in renewable energy [1] And? > largest army in the world And the 2nd largest army is the indian army. Are they are superpower? > in the top 3 of military strength ranking Wasn't iraq in the top 5? There is quite a drop from #1 and the rest. > Economically invading Europe [3]. Invading a much wealthier region? Using your logic, europe has invaded china even more considering how much investment europe has in china. > Playing the smart game in Africa [4] "Smart game"? You mean trading? This is the problem with reading so much news/propaganda. You start parroting them without bothering to think. > and the list goes on and on. I bet it does, but nothing on the list will show china to be a superpower. > If anything the US is on the way down while china is on their way up Definitely china is on the way up relative to the US. But that doesn't make them a superpower. >It's more like the US are happy to have a presence in Europe than the other way around. Whatever the reason, the point is Europe can't be a superpower when it has foreign military/occupation presence. It's conceivable that china or europe may one day be a superpower, but neither are at the moment.
  - lm28469 7y ago
    You're refuting all the points by saying "X country also as Y attribute" but what you fail to grasp is that China is one of the only country that combines all at the same time. Japan might have a good gdp but you can nuke then out of existence with a few bombs. Iraq might have a good army but they're not anywhere close to an economical power. > There is quite a drop from #1 and the rest. Not really https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp > the point is Europe can't be a superpower when it has foreign military/occupation presence Maybe, maybe not, if we start making up our own definitions of a superpower it's going to be a long discussion.

im3w1l 7y ago

China is on the path to become a super power, maybe you could say they are already there. But they haven't seriously started flexing yet.

vharuck 7y ago

They are superpowers, but the US is a hyperpower. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperpower https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperpower

NotSammyHagar 7y ago
I think it's only likely the US has been losing power past few years. Our long-term potential for the US economy should have been reduced by our lifespans reducing educational and infrastructure spending reducing centralizing wealth in the wealthy, more in the 0.1%.