5 ms·

Whatever you describe as ‘everything’ can be dismissed easily with everything else. Talent is built, educated, trained; genes are partially luck.

dntbnmpls 7y ago
> Talent is built, educated, trained; I think you are conflating talent with skill. You can develop your skill, but generally, your talent is viewed as innate or biological. Most people can train to be good at basketball, chess, etc. But most people don't have the talent to be michael jordan, magnus carlsen, etc. > genes are partially luck. Partially? I don't think it is possible since you inherit all your genes. Genes are entirely luck as you had no say in which genes you inherited.
- sokoloff 7y ago
  Your parents had some say in the matter, both in whether to have children at all, with whom, how many, when (IOW, under what financial circumstances), and what level of pre-birth testing for catastrophic birth defects they were comfortable with. From an individual person, looking at what they had agency over, it’s 100% luck. From a multi-generational family or societal view, it’s not 100% luck. (I also hold the view that some of what is often described as innate talent is also malleable depending on early childhood nurturing, nutrition, and education. That’s luck from the child point of view but not purely so from the family/society.)
Broken_Hippo 7y ago
No, not really. Being able to build and train a talent or skill is all luck. You need time and access and, in general, money to be able to train these things. I'm not sure that a kid that has spotty access to school is lucky enough to build their talent if it doesn't match up with society. Women (and young girls) aren't always even given the opportunity - unless their talents are homemaking and raising children.
- friendlybus 7y ago
  An ex I knew got into the 5th highest university in the country starting from a completely average high school, with a broken family after five years out side the schooling system. Was that luck? No, it was a descision made and adhered to over a decade. Other people in her class got teen pregnancies. Human decision exists and luck is a cop out. Burying meaning and choice in statistics and randomness is giving up at life.
  - Broken_Hippo 7y ago
    So, she was lucky enough to be able to work, perhaps? Was she able to participate in extracurricular activities (not everyone can). "Broken Family" is used for simple divorce cases or death in the family: These are not death sentences. She was lucky enough not to get pregnant too young, which can basically mean that she could get birth control and didn't have mishaps, which might include rape or incest related pregnancies. A woman I knew... her son got a full scholarship to university because he played baseball. He never got to finish school - because he wound up having a genetic condition that didn't allow him to play. Your friend didn't have these sorts of health concerns. It isn't that it is all luck, sure. Yes, she had to work hard. But lots of her luck was already there. She probably wasn't Amish, for example, otherwise she wouldn't have school after 8th grade or something. She wasn't sick. She didn't have cancer. She probably wasn't starving. And so on. Even if she had some of these, you've witnessed an exception, not a rule.

dntbnmpls 7y ago

> Talent is built, educated, trained; I think you are conflating talent with skill. You can develop your skill, but generally, your talent is viewed as innate or biological. Most people can train to be good at basketball, chess, etc. But most people don't have the talent to be michael jordan, magnus carlsen, etc. > genes are partially luck. Partially? I don't think it is possible since you inherit all your genes. Genes are entirely luck as you had no say in which genes you inherited.

sokoloff 7y ago
Your parents had some say in the matter, both in whether to have children at all, with whom, how many, when (IOW, under what financial circumstances), and what level of pre-birth testing for catastrophic birth defects they were comfortable with. From an individual person, looking at what they had agency over, it’s 100% luck. From a multi-generational family or societal view, it’s not 100% luck. (I also hold the view that some of what is often described as innate talent is also malleable depending on early childhood nurturing, nutrition, and education. That’s luck from the child point of view but not purely so from the family/society.)

Broken_Hippo 7y ago

No, not really. Being able to build and train a talent or skill is all luck. You need time and access and, in general, money to be able to train these things. I'm not sure that a kid that has spotty access to school is lucky enough to build their talent if it doesn't match up with society. Women (and young girls) aren't always even given the opportunity - unless their talents are homemaking and raising children.

friendlybus 7y ago
An ex I knew got into the 5th highest university in the country starting from a completely average high school, with a broken family after five years out side the schooling system. Was that luck? No, it was a descision made and adhered to over a decade. Other people in her class got teen pregnancies. Human decision exists and luck is a cop out. Burying meaning and choice in statistics and randomness is giving up at life.
- Broken_Hippo 7y ago
  So, she was lucky enough to be able to work, perhaps? Was she able to participate in extracurricular activities (not everyone can). "Broken Family" is used for simple divorce cases or death in the family: These are not death sentences. She was lucky enough not to get pregnant too young, which can basically mean that she could get birth control and didn't have mishaps, which might include rape or incest related pregnancies. A woman I knew... her son got a full scholarship to university because he played baseball. He never got to finish school - because he wound up having a genetic condition that didn't allow him to play. Your friend didn't have these sorts of health concerns. It isn't that it is all luck, sure. Yes, she had to work hard. But lots of her luck was already there. She probably wasn't Amish, for example, otherwise she wouldn't have school after 8th grade or something. She wasn't sick. She didn't have cancer. She probably wasn't starving. And so on. Even if she had some of these, you've witnessed an exception, not a rule.