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There really is no excuse for the lack of "real" software on the iPad (using "real" as in desktop quality). Only a small amount can be blamed on the system itse

There really is no excuse for the lack of "real" software on the iPad (using "real" as in desktop quality). Only a small amount can be blamed on the system itself, appealing to a very niche audience (like XCode). Arbitrary Javascript code written on the iPad can run, as evidenced by Play.js. Arbitrary Python code written on the iPad can run as evidenced by Pythonista. Arbitrary Swift code can run as evidenced by Swift Playgrounds. There's a Github app, there's a file explorer app, you can connect USB drives and keyboard and as of very recently, a mouse. So where is VS Code for the iPad? Where is desktop-class software for the iPad? Why is this [1] article from 8 years ago still the best-in-class way to write code on an iPad? Is there still some kind of missing support I'm not seeing? [1] https://yieldthought.com/post/12239282034/swapped-my-macbook-for-an-ipad https://yieldthought.com/post/12239282034/swapped-my-macbook...

saagarjha 7y ago
> Arbitrary Swift code can run as evidenced by Swift Playgrounds. Arbitrary Swift code which can only run because Apple grants themselves private entitlements that let it work.
rhinoceraptor 7y ago
There are a ton of great desktop quality apps on the iPad, I think the thing is that prosumer users don't know about them, and also people have been conditioned to think that any iOS app over $5 is expensive. As one example, the music ecosystem is really good. There's Garageband and several great 3rd party DAWs, and a ton of apps which provide audio units that you can plug into, such as Model D for synths, or Stark for guitar amp modeling. For photo/video, there are a few really great options: Affinity Photo is comparable to Photoshop, and LumaFusion is comparable to Final Cut or Premiere.
- dharma1 7y ago
  Agreed on the music ecosystem. The only thing that gets to me is the lack of keyboard shortcuts and being able to bind any midi cc to anything. You can't use midi to start and stop recording in Garageband for instance, which is something all desktop DAWs let you configure. LumaFusion is good but I really wish iOS supported more video codecs than two delivery codecs (h264 and h265). I mean, they own ProRes. Cmon just add support for it in iOS.
fxtentacle 7y ago
I believe this is simply because people doing serious coding work always want to have a proper permanently attached keyboard. So they would use a MacBook Air with ARM CPU, but not a tablet.
- freehunter 7y ago
  If that was the case no one would write code on a Surface, a laptop with an external keyboard, or even a desktop tower.
  - cyberbanjo 7y ago
    I do consider my desktop towers keyboard "permanent". I don't swap keyboards, I always use that one.
    - CarlRJ 7y ago
      Of course, by that standard, someone with an iPad with a keyboard attached (the ones that are part of a case/cover) could just as easily consider their keyboard "permanent".
      - arsome 7y ago
        Okay but how many people run iPads with keyboard attachments yet don't have a desktop or laptop that would be better for the purpose anyways? I'd wager few. If that market were larger it would be catered to.
        freehunter 7y ago
        Sounds like a chicken and egg problem. No one does it because the software they need doesn’t exist. The software they need doesn’t exist because no one uses the iPad that way.
- arvinsim 7y ago
  It's definitely not about the hardware, given that the iPad has. mouse/trackpad support now. It's about the software.
scarface74 7y ago
So “real software” is just development software?
- freehunter 7y ago
  No. Name desktop class software you want that isn’t available on an iPad and it’s just as valid. Name a profession who can’t do their work on an iPad and it’s just as valid. I just called our development software because this is a software development forum full of software developers. Hell, why aren’t there more desktop class video games on the iPad? Not because it can’t run them, that’s for sure. The hardware is more than powerful enough.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    There are no desktop class games because a touch screen and the control doesn’t translate well and people refuse to pay for premium games.
    - rchaud 7y ago
      Gamepads have been available for the iPad since at least 2013.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        We have over three decades of evidence in the console market that a game can’t be successful if it requires a non bundled accessory.
        rchaud 7y ago
        The iPad Pro doesn't come with a pen or a keyboard but that doesn't prevent them from flying off the shelves anyway.
        scarface74 7y ago
_ph_ 7y ago
There is a multitude of reasons for this. Beyond some limitations which still limit the ipad, it is the chick and an egg problem. You won't have real software on the iPad until there are users (buyers) for it and you won't have users until the software exists. This is especially important for corporate usage - at my work place I haven't heard of any iPads being provided to the employees, which means, no one can use an iPad and buy/develop software for one. There are and were limitations preventing desktop class software on the iPad, some have lifted but it also takes quite a long time to take up on that, see also above. - Keyboard support. For a lot of tasks, you need a keyboard. It took a long time until Apple sold keyboards for the iPad, and it still was quirky. There is a row of keys missing and even when coupling bluetooth keyboards, the extra keys didn't work. What Apple didn't really get was: a lot of people need an Esc key for their work, many would like funktion keys. It is still a struggle to run as simple as an ssh session on the iPad. Also, so far I haven't found a truely good SSH client on the iPad. - Mouse support - really has been added only with 13.4, we will see how this develops. Restrictions by Apple: - For a long time, there was no real file exchange between apps, no joint file spaces. This has been partially fixed, still feels cumbersome and very much depends on the apps to get right. - There is a ton of stuff that could be done on the iPad, but is banned outright. Termux is great on Android, not allowed on the iPad. The iPad would be great for development, if not mostly disallowed. - And yes, for a lot of things, the screen is just too small :). - The app store. Great and bad at the same time. The issues are probably best seen on macOS, because on macOS the app store is not mandatory. A lost of applications only exists outside the app store. While I liked the convenience of the app store and the fact that I don't have to deal with license keys and was free to use the app I bought across all my devices, the perpetual updates for free are condemning most longterm development. Paid upgrades were the life blood of the software industry for decades. They mean a regular revenue stream from power users like subscriptions, but didn't force the casual user to constantly pay, only when that user wanted the features of the newer versions. Subscriptions currently seem to be the only way, how a actively developed application can survive in that universe, but limits the user base. - In app purchases. In principle a good idea, it lead to a reality where apps are flooding the app store which constantly try to extort money from the user. That games are allowed to charge in total more than lets say 2x what an AAA title would cost, is scandaleous. A model where an app could offer a free trial and then is purchased normally would be much more supportive of quality app development. Many of this can be worked around, but unfortunately that is rather the exception. There are still great apps around which are a joy to use, but the whole ecosystem is drowned by all the bad stuff.
robenkleene 7y ago
VS Code on desktop can run arbitrary processes, that’s how it can, say, have in integrated terminal. You cannot even remotely do that on iPad. Executing Python and JavaScript in a pre-compiled runtime environment[0], like Pythonista and Play.js do, is an entirely different approach and results in completely different products, ones like... Play.js and Pythonista. The reason that VS Code is not on iPad is 100%, top to bottom that the framework and App Store restrictions prevent running arbitrary processes. [0]: VS Code can run any binary on your system, iPad apps can only run binaries that they are compiled with. This distinction is why almost no existing development tools can be ported to iPad, almost all development tools are built on interacting with many binaries that the tool was not necessarily compiled with.

saagarjha 7y ago

> Arbitrary Swift code can run as evidenced by Swift Playgrounds. Arbitrary Swift code which can only run because Apple grants themselves private entitlements that let it work.

rhinoceraptor 7y ago

There are a ton of great desktop quality apps on the iPad, I think the thing is that prosumer users don't know about them, and also people have been conditioned to think that any iOS app over $5 is expensive. As one example, the music ecosystem is really good. There's Garageband and several great 3rd party DAWs, and a ton of apps which provide audio units that you can plug into, such as Model D for synths, or Stark for guitar amp modeling. For photo/video, there are a few really great options: Affinity Photo is comparable to Photoshop, and LumaFusion is comparable to Final Cut or Premiere.

dharma1 7y ago
Agreed on the music ecosystem. The only thing that gets to me is the lack of keyboard shortcuts and being able to bind any midi cc to anything. You can't use midi to start and stop recording in Garageband for instance, which is something all desktop DAWs let you configure. LumaFusion is good but I really wish iOS supported more video codecs than two delivery codecs (h264 and h265). I mean, they own ProRes. Cmon just add support for it in iOS.

fxtentacle 7y ago

I believe this is simply because people doing serious coding work always want to have a proper permanently attached keyboard. So they would use a MacBook Air with ARM CPU, but not a tablet.

freehunter 7y ago
If that was the case no one would write code on a Surface, a laptop with an external keyboard, or even a desktop tower.
- cyberbanjo 7y ago
  I do consider my desktop towers keyboard "permanent". I don't swap keyboards, I always use that one.
  - CarlRJ 7y ago
    Of course, by that standard, someone with an iPad with a keyboard attached (the ones that are part of a case/cover) could just as easily consider their keyboard "permanent".
    - arsome 7y ago
      Okay but how many people run iPads with keyboard attachments yet don't have a desktop or laptop that would be better for the purpose anyways? I'd wager few. If that market were larger it would be catered to.
      - freehunter 7y ago
        Sounds like a chicken and egg problem. No one does it because the software they need doesn’t exist. The software they need doesn’t exist because no one uses the iPad that way.
arvinsim 7y ago
It's definitely not about the hardware, given that the iPad has. mouse/trackpad support now. It's about the software.

scarface74 7y ago

So “real software” is just development software?

freehunter 7y ago
No. Name desktop class software you want that isn’t available on an iPad and it’s just as valid. Name a profession who can’t do their work on an iPad and it’s just as valid. I just called our development software because this is a software development forum full of software developers. Hell, why aren’t there more desktop class video games on the iPad? Not because it can’t run them, that’s for sure. The hardware is more than powerful enough.
- scarface74 7y ago
  There are no desktop class games because a touch screen and the control doesn’t translate well and people refuse to pay for premium games.
  - rchaud 7y ago
    Gamepads have been available for the iPad since at least 2013.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      We have over three decades of evidence in the console market that a game can’t be successful if it requires a non bundled accessory.
      - rchaud 7y ago
        The iPad Pro doesn't come with a pen or a keyboard but that doesn't prevent them from flying off the shelves anyway.
        scarface74 7y ago

_ph_ 7y ago

There is a multitude of reasons for this. Beyond some limitations which still limit the ipad, it is the chick and an egg problem. You won't have real software on the iPad until there are users (buyers) for it and you won't have users until the software exists. This is especially important for corporate usage - at my work place I haven't heard of any iPads being provided to the employees, which means, no one can use an iPad and buy/develop software for one. There are and were limitations preventing desktop class software on the iPad, some have lifted but it also takes quite a long time to take up on that, see also above. - Keyboard support. For a lot of tasks, you need a keyboard. It took a long time until Apple sold keyboards for the iPad, and it still was quirky. There is a row of keys missing and even when coupling bluetooth keyboards, the extra keys didn't work. What Apple didn't really get was: a lot of people need an Esc key for their work, many would like funktion keys. It is still a struggle to run as simple as an ssh session on the iPad. Also, so far I haven't found a truely good SSH client on the iPad. - Mouse support - really has been added only with 13.4, we will see how this develops. Restrictions by Apple: - For a long time, there was no real file exchange between apps, no joint file spaces. This has been partially fixed, still feels cumbersome and very much depends on the apps to get right. - There is a ton of stuff that could be done on the iPad, but is banned outright. Termux is great on Android, not allowed on the iPad. The iPad would be great for development, if not mostly disallowed. - And yes, for a lot of things, the screen is just too small :). - The app store. Great and bad at the same time. The issues are probably best seen on macOS, because on macOS the app store is not mandatory. A lost of applications only exists outside the app store. While I liked the convenience of the app store and the fact that I don't have to deal with license keys and was free to use the app I bought across all my devices, the perpetual updates for free are condemning most longterm development. Paid upgrades were the life blood of the software industry for decades. They mean a regular revenue stream from power users like subscriptions, but didn't force the casual user to constantly pay, only when that user wanted the features of the newer versions. Subscriptions currently seem to be the only way, how a actively developed application can survive in that universe, but limits the user base. - In app purchases. In principle a good idea, it lead to a reality where apps are flooding the app store which constantly try to extort money from the user. That games are allowed to charge in total more than lets say 2x what an AAA title would cost, is scandaleous. A model where an app could offer a free trial and then is purchased normally would be much more supportive of quality app development. Many of this can be worked around, but unfortunately that is rather the exception. There are still great apps around which are a joy to use, but the whole ecosystem is drowned by all the bad stuff.

robenkleene 7y ago

VS Code on desktop can run arbitrary processes, that’s how it can, say, have in integrated terminal. You cannot even remotely do that on iPad. Executing Python and JavaScript in a pre-compiled runtime environment[0], like Pythonista and Play.js do, is an entirely different approach and results in completely different products, ones like... Play.js and Pythonista. The reason that VS Code is not on iPad is 100%, top to bottom that the framework and App Store restrictions prevent running arbitrary processes. [0]: VS Code can run any binary on your system, iPad apps can only run binaries that they are compiled with. This distinction is why almost no existing development tools can be ported to iPad, almost all development tools are built on interacting with many binaries that the tool was not necessarily compiled with.