4 ms·

I wish I had declined my CS education. I, a recent CS graduate (Bachelor of Science in Computer Science), have come to the conclusion that a)my education equal

by eznet 18y ago

I wish I had declined my CS education. I, a recent CS graduate (Bachelor of Science in Computer Science), have come to the conclusion that a)my education equals squat to potential employers (and that a hand full of $300 certifications would have served as more valuable) and b)everything I learned in 4 years of CS studies, I could have learned in half the time outside of class - much of which I did, and then had to sit through it again in class. I have been out of school for approximately 3 months now, have submitted well over 100 resumes, and cannot net even a remedial hold-over job screwing in PCI cards and fixing users' desktops. This afternoon I am throwing on a pair of khakis and heading out to see if I can net a job waiting tables - woot! P.S. That last sentence is literal, in about an hour I am going for a restaurant interview... man, I am really happy I listened to my parents and elders and made sure to go to college, so that now I have 35k in debt and no job with which to pay it back with.

biohacker42 18y ago
Been there done that, it gets better. I got out of school with my BS in CS right at bottom of the .com bust. 2+ months of resume sending and nothing, eventually I got "network engineer" (glorified PC repairman) job. It was fun for about a month, then it got repetitive. 6+ month later I finally got a break and started (for slightly less $) as junior software engineer. So yeah right now it feels like your CS is worth less then a bunch of certificates, but don't worry things change and in the long term you are better of. In fact waiting tables might be better then what I did. It could pay more if you get lots of tips and you can keep your skills sharp outside of work, and the temptation to specialize in your new job and forget CS isn't there. In summary: Suck it up kid!
- eznet 18y ago
  Ha! Thanks. Yea, I know what you are saying, and I am sure that something will come along. I am taking my A+ next week because every 'network engineer' position that I have applied for requires it - they do not, however, require a CS degree. Go figure. All I can do is use this time that I have and hone my hacking skills - something to be thankful for. Oh, and at the interview they said the waiter positions was filled, but they will call me about the busboy position! Yay!
  - ibsulon 18y ago
    Try applying for QA positions as well, instead of tech guy ones. Frankly, you might be running into a problem that you're overqualified for the grunt work positions. Further, unless you're WAY younger than your wife, you may be running into an age discrimination issue. I've come to the conclusion that the best thing anyone can do for themselves to get into the corporate world is an internship during one's college years. Most places hire their new talent from their intern pool.
- geebee 18y ago
  It took me a while to get a real programming job out of school as well. It eventually happened. Whatever you do, keep coding. Get stuff out there. Pick an open source project if you like that kind of thing, otherwise follow a pet project, get it on the web. Hell, you may not even need a job if it takes off. But in the short term, there's a serious risk of fading away from code, which is why you really honestly might be better off working at a coffee shop instead of doing a boring corporate job. At least you'll be hungry to write code. A creative writing teacher advised a few students against taking a PR job for the same reason (I'm not sure that was necessarily the best advice, just one school of thought). In the past, it was much harder to program, because the resources were harder to come by. Now, you really can't say "I never had the opportunity to work with that programming language", because pretty much everything is there for the taking.
edw519 18y ago
submitted well over 100 resumes Perhaps you should consider quality, not quantity. I have been through a similar situation but have never sent out more than one resume at a time, ever. And every one was custom. Whenever you find a prospective opportunity, learn everything you can about it. Try to get a personal introduction if you can. Write a cover letter and resume that specifically targets what they want, not what you want. Avoid headhunters (if you can) and follow up, follow up, follow up. Use any means you have to uncover opportunities (some call this "networking"). Better yet, get someone to create a position for you. (I know this is tough, but so what.) I see entry level positions all the time. Be prepared to move if you have to. Take the waiter job and then plug away for an IT job in your spare time. I know there's something out there for you, persevere and find it.
- eznet 18y ago
  Yea, I am going to spend this 'down time' honing my skills as a hacker and see what happens from there. As the old adage goes "the proof is in the pudding" and I currently don't have much in the way of 'pudding' to show prospective employers aside from my degree - guess I need to get to brainstorming. Oh, and concerning moving: my wife is an accountant here and is clearing 60, so yea, not really an option... luckily she can support my broke-a for now.
  - gojomo 18y ago
    Accountants are needed everywhere, so if you're not emotionally/socially tied to Alabama, maybe you want to become a dual-income couple elsewhere. If you're trapped in Alabama, edw519 makes good suggestions about personalizing your pitch and ibsulon, below, about broadening your search to 'adjacent' positions that could lead to coding. To build the kind of rep that could get you remote work, do publicly observable projects, on your own or as part of open-source projects. You might also try doing small freelance jobs via other cities' Craigslist, Rentacoder, Elance, Odesk. (You're competing against some very cheap overseas coders but you've got the language and culture down, a first-world degree, and still live in one of the cheapest areas of the US.)
cowmoo 18y ago
Hmm.. I have to say I have had a very different experience being a fresh college grad (class of 2008). I applied for jobs at various different places, big companies and small startup's, in all different types of industries defense, finance, health and software. I would say I hear back from companies I sent my resume to 75% of the time - and out of those companies, I eventually get offers 75% of the time. Salary typically hovers around 50-60K depending on location and the nature of job. Oh and I did not graduate from a technical school - no certificates, and my degree in CS is not even a BS, it's a BA because I graduated from the liberal arts college. Your mileage may vary, that's all I am saying.
- eznet 18y ago
  Good job Mr. Gates. C/o 2008 and already getting 60K offers from 75% of your applications. You are a fortunate fellow. Unfortunately the tech jobs here in the southeast U.S. (Alabama to be specific) aren't so hot - avg <40k starting. And before you said 'move', see above comment. Thanks for the feedback though.
  - aaronblohowiak 18y ago
    remote work can be hard to find without a portfolio. thankfully, making a portfolio doesn't require much more than you already have.
  - brent 18y ago
    Don't blame college or your parents if you're intentionally staying in a bad market. _Move_ to a place where your wife will clear 60 and you will clear 60. Easy.
deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
bgutierrez 18y ago
Where are you located? The companies I'm in never seem to fill all their developer positions.
- eznet 18y ago
  Birmingham, Alabama - there are always positions open, but they want 'senior' developers. About as far as I have gotten concerning these jobs is attempting to sell myself as a quick learner willing to work from the bottom up, but it seems that no one is interesting in mentoring or even trying a green developer out. Now, in fairness, I understand that time is money and no one wants to waste time, so I am guessing I need to suck it up and get in on some projects to build my portfolio - I kinda thought thats what my first job out of college would do (teach me and build me), but looks like that comes after considerable personal development.

by eznet 18y ago

biohacker42 18y ago

Been there done that, it gets better. I got out of school with my BS in CS right at bottom of the .com bust. 2+ months of resume sending and nothing, eventually I got "network engineer" (glorified PC repairman) job. It was fun for about a month, then it got repetitive. 6+ month later I finally got a break and started (for slightly less $) as junior software engineer. So yeah right now it feels like your CS is worth less then a bunch of certificates, but don't worry things change and in the long term you are better of. In fact waiting tables might be better then what I did. It could pay more if you get lots of tips and you can keep your skills sharp outside of work, and the temptation to specialize in your new job and forget CS isn't there. In summary: Suck it up kid!

eznet 18y ago
Ha! Thanks. Yea, I know what you are saying, and I am sure that something will come along. I am taking my A+ next week because every 'network engineer' position that I have applied for requires it - they do not, however, require a CS degree. Go figure. All I can do is use this time that I have and hone my hacking skills - something to be thankful for. Oh, and at the interview they said the waiter positions was filled, but they will call me about the busboy position! Yay!
- ibsulon 18y ago
  Try applying for QA positions as well, instead of tech guy ones. Frankly, you might be running into a problem that you're overqualified for the grunt work positions. Further, unless you're WAY younger than your wife, you may be running into an age discrimination issue. I've come to the conclusion that the best thing anyone can do for themselves to get into the corporate world is an internship during one's college years. Most places hire their new talent from their intern pool.
geebee 18y ago
It took me a while to get a real programming job out of school as well. It eventually happened. Whatever you do, keep coding. Get stuff out there. Pick an open source project if you like that kind of thing, otherwise follow a pet project, get it on the web. Hell, you may not even need a job if it takes off. But in the short term, there's a serious risk of fading away from code, which is why you really honestly might be better off working at a coffee shop instead of doing a boring corporate job. At least you'll be hungry to write code. A creative writing teacher advised a few students against taking a PR job for the same reason (I'm not sure that was necessarily the best advice, just one school of thought). In the past, it was much harder to program, because the resources were harder to come by. Now, you really can't say "I never had the opportunity to work with that programming language", because pretty much everything is there for the taking.

edw519 18y ago

submitted well over 100 resumes Perhaps you should consider quality, not quantity. I have been through a similar situation but have never sent out more than one resume at a time, ever. And every one was custom. Whenever you find a prospective opportunity, learn everything you can about it. Try to get a personal introduction if you can. Write a cover letter and resume that specifically targets what they want, not what you want. Avoid headhunters (if you can) and follow up, follow up, follow up. Use any means you have to uncover opportunities (some call this "networking"). Better yet, get someone to create a position for you. (I know this is tough, but so what.) I see entry level positions all the time. Be prepared to move if you have to. Take the waiter job and then plug away for an IT job in your spare time. I know there's something out there for you, persevere and find it.

eznet 18y ago
Yea, I am going to spend this 'down time' honing my skills as a hacker and see what happens from there. As the old adage goes "the proof is in the pudding" and I currently don't have much in the way of 'pudding' to show prospective employers aside from my degree - guess I need to get to brainstorming. Oh, and concerning moving: my wife is an accountant here and is clearing 60, so yea, not really an option... luckily she can support my broke-a for now.
- gojomo 18y ago
  Accountants are needed everywhere, so if you're not emotionally/socially tied to Alabama, maybe you want to become a dual-income couple elsewhere. If you're trapped in Alabama, edw519 makes good suggestions about personalizing your pitch and ibsulon, below, about broadening your search to 'adjacent' positions that could lead to coding. To build the kind of rep that could get you remote work, do publicly observable projects, on your own or as part of open-source projects. You might also try doing small freelance jobs via other cities' Craigslist, Rentacoder, Elance, Odesk. (You're competing against some very cheap overseas coders but you've got the language and culture down, a first-world degree, and still live in one of the cheapest areas of the US.)

cowmoo 18y ago

Hmm.. I have to say I have had a very different experience being a fresh college grad (class of 2008). I applied for jobs at various different places, big companies and small startup's, in all different types of industries defense, finance, health and software. I would say I hear back from companies I sent my resume to 75% of the time - and out of those companies, I eventually get offers 75% of the time. Salary typically hovers around 50-60K depending on location and the nature of job. Oh and I did not graduate from a technical school - no certificates, and my degree in CS is not even a BS, it's a BA because I graduated from the liberal arts college. Your mileage may vary, that's all I am saying.

eznet 18y ago
Good job Mr. Gates. C/o 2008 and already getting 60K offers from 75% of your applications. You are a fortunate fellow. Unfortunately the tech jobs here in the southeast U.S. (Alabama to be specific) aren't so hot - avg <40k starting. And before you said 'move', see above comment. Thanks for the feedback though.
- aaronblohowiak 18y ago
  remote work can be hard to find without a portfolio. thankfully, making a portfolio doesn't require much more than you already have.
- brent 18y ago
  Don't blame college or your parents if you're intentionally staying in a bad market. _Move_ to a place where your wife will clear 60 and you will clear 60. Easy.

deleted 18y ago

[deleted]

bgutierrez 18y ago

Where are you located? The companies I'm in never seem to fill all their developer positions.

eznet 18y ago
Birmingham, Alabama - there are always positions open, but they want 'senior' developers. About as far as I have gotten concerning these jobs is attempting to sell myself as a quick learner willing to work from the bottom up, but it seems that no one is interesting in mentoring or even trying a green developer out. Now, in fairness, I understand that time is money and no one wants to waste time, so I am guessing I need to suck it up and get in on some projects to build my portfolio - I kinda thought thats what my first job out of college would do (teach me and build me), but looks like that comes after considerable personal development.