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Why is it so easy to accept that pretty much everything in our bodies is genetic but not intelligence? I don't see why it would be any different. We already kno

Why is it so easy to accept that pretty much everything in our bodies is genetic but not intelligence? I don't see why it would be any different. We already know that the brain is not just one big 'computing mass' but instead consists of many thousands of extremely specialized systems interconnected in a genetically-determined way shaped over thousands of years of evolution. If some of these systems are missing or not connected properly because of some genetic alteration it causes a wide spectrum of effects in our mental development. We know depression has a genetic element. We know downs syndrome is genetic. We know that identical twins separated from birth are remarkably similar, not just in how they look but also in how they act, how they see the world, what kind interests they have and so on. It's naive to think everyone is born equal that way.

scott_s 16y ago
Nowhere did I say "equal." I think there is a distribution, but I don't think the distribution is extreme for those who don't have a disability such as mental retardation. As such, while I think inherent intelligence is a factor in people's successes, I don't think it's the dominant factor.
electromagnetic 16y ago
Everyone isn't born equal, but everything we have doesn't solely come from genetics. Nurture plays a huge role in our development. Saying Natalie Portman is successful solely because of her DNA is wholly disrespectful to her hard work. She didn't get best actress and a masters degree by just slumming it because her genes did all the work. It's naive and ignorant to ignore nurture in the debate. A lack of Vitamin D or cholesterol can inhibit myelin growth, which notably in the womb causes a miscarriage or still-birth/brain dead baby. It's reasonable to assume that a lack of Vitamin D or cholesterol in a child's formative years is going to cause severe developmental problems. Natalie Portman has a degree and an oscar for one simple thing: She works hard. If she didn't work hard she might be a recognizable actress, but she'd be like a huge number of university enrollees in that they never get any degree. Genetics is a firm foundation, bad genetics can cause lots of problems. But only work is going to build a house, and only hard work is going to build you a mansion.
- lwat 16y ago
  If she didn't have the right genes to go with her hard work she wouldn't get anywhere either.
  - electromagnetic 16y ago
    She'd have probably got somewhere average. Similarly if she had all the right genes and none of the hard work she'd have got somewhere average again. However, there's people who work way too hard to succeed and totally burn out. We have nature, nurture and random chance that create all of us. I wouldn't have said "life's too short" and moved country if I hadn't read a single book (The Strange Life of Ivan Osokin) that I have no clue how it came to be in my possession. My entire life is based on seemingly random chances. I met my wife via friends of friends of friends whom I originally met in a chat room. I got my dog (Dachshund x Jack Russell) by going to the SPCA when they were flooded with Labrador crosses and they had no terriers up for adoption, but she was getting taken out for a walk at that very moment. Our entire lives are quantified by our reaction to random chance. I had less odds of being where I am today than I have of winning the lottery, but why do the events of my life occur so but my lottery ticket is always going to be a dud for the rest of my life. It's the mixture of our nature and nurture that define who we are, by how we react to random occurrences. What random shit defined your life so far?
- nostrademons 16y ago
  There's a fair bit of evidence that hard work is itself genetic, and the ability to focus attention and delay gratification is largely due to certain brain structures. Those brain structures can be affected by genetics, by environment (eg. fetal alcohol syndrome results in a marked loss of impulse control later), or by practice, but not everybody starts from the same point. Anyway, your point gets into issues of free will and consciousness that philosophers have been debating for centuries. If everything has a cause, how can we say what we're actually responsible for, and how much is just a reaction to random chance? Perhaps consciousness is largely an illusion: the brain makes decisions based on firmly ingrained circuits that function at a subconscious level, and only later does that bubble up to the conscious level.
cdavid 16y ago
First, not everything from our body genetic as you say, there is still much to learn there. But more significantly, intelligence is a very fuzzy concept, much harder to describe and more so define than eye color or height. It is also as much of a cultural concept as things like beauty, charisma, etc... Which is also why it is a more touchy subject than eye color or height: it is much more related to one own ideology.
danssig 16y ago
>Why is it so easy to accept that pretty much everything in our bodies is genetic but not intelligence? Because intelligence is much less understood than most of the rest of our bodies. For example, there have been various discoveries that seem to indicate our language has an effect on what we can know and understand [1, 2, etc.]. Perhaps there are dramatic differences in what each of our brains are capable at the "hardware" level, but the "software" (language) dampens the effect. [1] The Piraha can't learn numbers after a certain age because they have no words to describe them [2] An article a few months back about deaf people growing up without any language ended up bringing out the fact that some asian languages have words to describe some aspect of color that westerners do not. Babies are able to see the difference but gradually lose the ability as they grow up with no way of expressing it.

scott_s 16y ago

Nowhere did I say "equal." I think there is a distribution, but I don't think the distribution is extreme for those who don't have a disability such as mental retardation. As such, while I think inherent intelligence is a factor in people's successes, I don't think it's the dominant factor.

electromagnetic 16y ago

Everyone isn't born equal, but everything we have doesn't solely come from genetics. Nurture plays a huge role in our development. Saying Natalie Portman is successful solely because of her DNA is wholly disrespectful to her hard work. She didn't get best actress and a masters degree by just slumming it because her genes did all the work. It's naive and ignorant to ignore nurture in the debate. A lack of Vitamin D or cholesterol can inhibit myelin growth, which notably in the womb causes a miscarriage or still-birth/brain dead baby. It's reasonable to assume that a lack of Vitamin D or cholesterol in a child's formative years is going to cause severe developmental problems. Natalie Portman has a degree and an oscar for one simple thing: She works hard. If she didn't work hard she might be a recognizable actress, but she'd be like a huge number of university enrollees in that they never get any degree. Genetics is a firm foundation, bad genetics can cause lots of problems. But only work is going to build a house, and only hard work is going to build you a mansion.

lwat 16y ago
If she didn't have the right genes to go with her hard work she wouldn't get anywhere either.
- electromagnetic 16y ago
  She'd have probably got somewhere average. Similarly if she had all the right genes and none of the hard work she'd have got somewhere average again. However, there's people who work way too hard to succeed and totally burn out. We have nature, nurture and random chance that create all of us. I wouldn't have said "life's too short" and moved country if I hadn't read a single book (The Strange Life of Ivan Osokin) that I have no clue how it came to be in my possession. My entire life is based on seemingly random chances. I met my wife via friends of friends of friends whom I originally met in a chat room. I got my dog (Dachshund x Jack Russell) by going to the SPCA when they were flooded with Labrador crosses and they had no terriers up for adoption, but she was getting taken out for a walk at that very moment. Our entire lives are quantified by our reaction to random chance. I had less odds of being where I am today than I have of winning the lottery, but why do the events of my life occur so but my lottery ticket is always going to be a dud for the rest of my life. It's the mixture of our nature and nurture that define who we are, by how we react to random occurrences. What random shit defined your life so far?
nostrademons 16y ago
There's a fair bit of evidence that hard work is itself genetic, and the ability to focus attention and delay gratification is largely due to certain brain structures. Those brain structures can be affected by genetics, by environment (eg. fetal alcohol syndrome results in a marked loss of impulse control later), or by practice, but not everybody starts from the same point. Anyway, your point gets into issues of free will and consciousness that philosophers have been debating for centuries. If everything has a cause, how can we say what we're actually responsible for, and how much is just a reaction to random chance? Perhaps consciousness is largely an illusion: the brain makes decisions based on firmly ingrained circuits that function at a subconscious level, and only later does that bubble up to the conscious level.

cdavid 16y ago

First, not everything from our body genetic as you say, there is still much to learn there. But more significantly, intelligence is a very fuzzy concept, much harder to describe and more so define than eye color or height. It is also as much of a cultural concept as things like beauty, charisma, etc... Which is also why it is a more touchy subject than eye color or height: it is much more related to one own ideology.

danssig 16y ago

>Why is it so easy to accept that pretty much everything in our bodies is genetic but not intelligence? Because intelligence is much less understood than most of the rest of our bodies. For example, there have been various discoveries that seem to indicate our language has an effect on what we can know and understand [1, 2, etc.]. Perhaps there are dramatic differences in what each of our brains are capable at the "hardware" level, but the "software" (language) dampens the effect. [1] The Piraha can't learn numbers after a certain age because they have no words to describe them [2] An article a few months back about deaf people growing up without any language ended up bringing out the fact that some asian languages have words to describe some aspect of color that westerners do not. Babies are able to see the difference but gradually lose the ability as they grow up with no way of expressing it.