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This is honestly the best “Zoom is bad” summery I’ve seen so far. While I certainly believe some of the Zoom hate is blown out of proportion, this article does

by gen3 7y ago

This is honestly the best “Zoom is bad” summery I’ve seen so far. While I certainly believe some of the Zoom hate is blown out of proportion, this article does a good job explaining to someone who isn't a security expert what the issues are. I've been getting questions about the company from family and friends, and will be forwarding this to them. Well done.

jasonv 7y ago
I think of it as a warning to future companies who take these kind of liberties...
- thedudeabides5 7y ago
  I mean, isn't this stuff they can fix? Like good that the market is stressing them on their security, at $30bn they should be able to engage with that feedback and then loop. On the other hand, tried to use Skype lately? Product has barely evolved since they were bought out by MSFT. Guess google does videoconferencing too, but they know enough about us all already....
  - lutorm 7y ago
    They can fix the code, but would people trust them when they say that the code is fixed? Trust needs to be earned.
    - dividedbyzero 7y ago
      People trust them even though their security is broken. Lots of people don't know, lot don't care, quite a few probably don't get it anyway.
  - discordance 7y ago
    It’ll take a new CEO before people will trust them again, kind of like what happened at Uber.
    - Igelau 7y ago
      Who are you hoping picks up this little unit of opinion? Are you hoping to see it quoted, or just vaguely referred to as "growing discontent" and know that you were in there? Such a strangely extreme viewpoint to suddenly jump to.
- matthewaveryusa 7y ago
  The warning being that it doesn't matter because it doesn't affect their share price right? So far I haven't seen any tangible damage to them when it comes to $$.
  - snazz 7y ago
    It's been a somewhat noticeable hit, but they're still doing great overall: https://www.google.com/search?q=zm+stock https://www.google.com/search?q=zm+stock
  - mbesto 7y ago
    Share price aside...it's the most reliable video conferencing app while others are crumbling to infrastructure pressure (UberConf, GotoMeeting, etc). Their downloads are through the roof right now: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/zoom-tops-weekly-download-charts/ar-BB124jNe https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/zoom-tops-weekly-d...
  - jasonv 7y ago
    Let's see where they are in 6 or 12 month's time and what they go through to get there. Other nascent companies will tip their "We want to grow like Zoom" hat and it'll serve as a warning sign as to what the growth mentality is. Anyway, my point was... I don't think they've taken too much grief yet, for what they've done. They deserve all the lumps they're getting, and that may (hopefully) be instructive. [And yeah, there are always companies that do this kind of thing... some are Facebook, and some trip into a hole.]
    - amachefe 7y ago
      This sounds like Zoom hate, which I am seeing a lot nowadays. The irony is that it is coming from tech while the av Joe's doesn't really care.
consonaut 7y ago
This is a great article, but as an educational provider it fails to answer one question: Why should I care? The only concerning thing for me is, why would they lie about using AES-256 when none of my users (and I assume most of their users) would care in any way about AES-256 vs. AES-128 in ECB mode. Why would they lie? Even after this, having my users conducting university lessons over something that might be decrypted in China is honestly not that big of an issue. I would of course prefer it if these meetings would be private from the PRCs scrutiny but at least in my situation (and I think most educational contexts) this is not really that important.
- basch 7y ago
  Because a company doing an RFP with a checklist of features is going to rank them against their competitors, and it would look bad in the spreadsheet.
  - consonaut 7y ago
    I assume this is your answer to "why would they lie?". It does not answer the question to why should an educational provider care though. And assuming I'll consider switching to webex the response to encryption in webex is this: https://www.webex.com/content/dam/Webex/eopi/Americas/USA/en_us/documents/pdf/security_Webex.pdf https://www.webex.com/content/dam/Webex/eopi/Americas/USA/en... Which 404's and basically represents my experience with Cisco: "We don't give a shit about you, you already payed us.". Frankly Webex could host the next coming of Jesus and I would not give them any more money.
    - google234123 7y ago
      lol, nice job finding a link that 404s and basing your entire argument on it. Here is another one for your next post: https://www.webex.com/sdvfebdwq3433t8hjaxcxqadxe https://www.webex.com/sdvfebdwq3433t8hjaxcxqadxe
      - consonaut 7y ago

by gen3 7y ago

jasonv 7y ago

I think of it as a warning to future companies who take these kind of liberties...

thedudeabides5 7y ago
I mean, isn't this stuff they can fix? Like good that the market is stressing them on their security, at $30bn they should be able to engage with that feedback and then loop. On the other hand, tried to use Skype lately? Product has barely evolved since they were bought out by MSFT. Guess google does videoconferencing too, but they know enough about us all already....
- lutorm 7y ago
  They can fix the code, but would people trust them when they say that the code is fixed? Trust needs to be earned.
  - dividedbyzero 7y ago
    People trust them even though their security is broken. Lots of people don't know, lot don't care, quite a few probably don't get it anyway.
- discordance 7y ago
  It’ll take a new CEO before people will trust them again, kind of like what happened at Uber.
  - Igelau 7y ago
    Who are you hoping picks up this little unit of opinion? Are you hoping to see it quoted, or just vaguely referred to as "growing discontent" and know that you were in there? Such a strangely extreme viewpoint to suddenly jump to.
matthewaveryusa 7y ago
The warning being that it doesn't matter because it doesn't affect their share price right? So far I haven't seen any tangible damage to them when it comes to $$.
- snazz 7y ago
  It's been a somewhat noticeable hit, but they're still doing great overall: https://www.google.com/search?q=zm+stock https://www.google.com/search?q=zm+stock
- mbesto 7y ago
  Share price aside...it's the most reliable video conferencing app while others are crumbling to infrastructure pressure (UberConf, GotoMeeting, etc). Their downloads are through the roof right now: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/zoom-tops-weekly-download-charts/ar-BB124jNe https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/zoom-tops-weekly-d...
- jasonv 7y ago
  Let's see where they are in 6 or 12 month's time and what they go through to get there. Other nascent companies will tip their "We want to grow like Zoom" hat and it'll serve as a warning sign as to what the growth mentality is. Anyway, my point was... I don't think they've taken too much grief yet, for what they've done. They deserve all the lumps they're getting, and that may (hopefully) be instructive. [And yeah, there are always companies that do this kind of thing... some are Facebook, and some trip into a hole.]
  - amachefe 7y ago
    This sounds like Zoom hate, which I am seeing a lot nowadays. The irony is that it is coming from tech while the av Joe's doesn't really care.

consonaut 7y ago

This is a great article, but as an educational provider it fails to answer one question: Why should I care? The only concerning thing for me is, why would they lie about using AES-256 when none of my users (and I assume most of their users) would care in any way about AES-256 vs. AES-128 in ECB mode. Why would they lie? Even after this, having my users conducting university lessons over something that might be decrypted in China is honestly not that big of an issue. I would of course prefer it if these meetings would be private from the PRCs scrutiny but at least in my situation (and I think most educational contexts) this is not really that important.

basch 7y ago
Because a company doing an RFP with a checklist of features is going to rank them against their competitors, and it would look bad in the spreadsheet.
- consonaut 7y ago
  I assume this is your answer to "why would they lie?". It does not answer the question to why should an educational provider care though. And assuming I'll consider switching to webex the response to encryption in webex is this: https://www.webex.com/content/dam/Webex/eopi/Americas/USA/en_us/documents/pdf/security_Webex.pdf https://www.webex.com/content/dam/Webex/eopi/Americas/USA/en... Which 404's and basically represents my experience with Cisco: "We don't give a shit about you, you already payed us.". Frankly Webex could host the next coming of Jesus and I would not give them any more money.
  - google234123 7y ago
    lol, nice job finding a link that 404s and basing your entire argument on it. Here is another one for your next post: https://www.webex.com/sdvfebdwq3433t8hjaxcxqadxe https://www.webex.com/sdvfebdwq3433t8hjaxcxqadxe
    - consonaut 7y ago