5 ms·

Blue collar Americans in the cities are within a couple of weeks to telling everyone to shove it. These are people who had less than a $1000 dollars extra in th

Blue collar Americans in the cities are within a couple of weeks to telling everyone to shove it. These are people who had less than a $1000 dollars extra in their bank accounts. They have been out of a job for one paycheck already. Credit card companies are slashing credit lines. Postal service is failing to deliver mail in some locations. Unemployment numbers/systems work as well as Healthcare.gov did upon launch. We are one to two weeks away from massive civil unrest when thousands of people have no money to pay for food.

vkou 7y ago
If you don't want this unrest, start giving people food. The solution is obvious, and is only unpalatable to idealogues.
- notyourday 7y ago
  There's no centralized system to do this. Everything relies on thousands of little trading businesses. Those businesses are now closed. It will take at best a couple of months to get a different system in place. If that system gets rolled out, the US as the country is over because it is an admission that the US is not capable of maintaining it's existing economic system.
  - vkou 7y ago
    All the groceries are currently open. All the farms are currently working, minus migrant labourers, because we would rather have crops rot in the field, than let them into the country. All the truckers are currently hauling. The only part of the distribution system that isn't working very well because of the shutdown is the part that distributes dollars. Any service disruptions right now are not due to the shutdown - they are due to the actual effects of the virus. Look at the MTA. Half of its employees are sick, and the other half have called in sick. Train service has been reduced, and passengers are now packed like sardines in a can on the trains that are still running. Look at the supply chain disruptions - they aren't caused by people being stopped from coming in to work - they are because people can't, or are afraid to come into work. As well they should be, given the state of healthcare in this country. Who is going to pay for their care if they are one of the 20% that need hospitalization after catching it?
    - notyourday 7y ago
      > All the groceries are currently open. That's a talking point. Chinatown grocery stores are mostly closed in both Manhattan and Queens. Patels is closed everywhere. Edit: Downvotes don't protect from reality https://www.patelbros.com/coronavirus https://www.patelbros.com/coronavirus
      - CydeWeys 7y ago
        Enough grocery stores are still open, and grocery delivery services are doing roaring business. We're not remotely (yet?) at risk of people starving from inability to obtain food.
        notyourday 7y ago
        Non-gigantic grocery stores are going to start closing because contrary to the official positions logistics is broken. Smaller grocery stores have very small margins and operate on COD basis. A friend of mine owns one. His distributors raised prices between 10-50% across the board and removed all the incentives. He does not have enough money to stock up at the new price points so he is slowing the buys, cleaning out inventory and is going to close unless the social distancing goes away by the end of the month. Anecdotally, other small supermarket operators are thinking about doing the same. Effective grocery store prices are 2x - all of the sales have been removed. Eggs in Queens went from $1.69/dozen to $7.99 a dozen. $1200 tax credit for 2020 ( this is what it actually is ) is nothing for people who live and support high cost areas which are the people who allow for the white collar jobs to exist.
        vkou 7y ago
        Are those logistics broken because the government shut the logistics operators down, or because people running them have fallen ill, or are afraid of falling ill? Every state with shutdown orders considers logistics essential services. Nobody but the virus is preventing the people working in them from going to work. I'll repeat it: Nobody working in food production and distribution is forbidden from going to work. If prices are rising, it has nothing to do with the shutdown, and everything to do with the fact that there's a global pandemic... Which will be made worse if lift the shutdown orders. Are you planning on ordering these people back to work at gunpoint, to lower the price of eggs? Or are you going to instead, consider extending a short-term loan, so that the grocer can absorb the price hike? The number of hens laying eggs hasn't changed over the past four weeks.
  - mnm1 7y ago
    Of course there is. It's called the National Guard. It's called the US Army, Airforce, and Navy. It's called FEMA. I'm sure there are plenty of other centralized systems with tons of funding ready to do this on a moment's notice. What we don't have is leadership, with an idiot leading this country who said the pandemic is a "hoax."
    - notyourday 7y ago
      The optics of the National Guard (read: men with guns) delivering food for months in the entire United States would trigger a nearly immediate break down of economic ties both internally in the US and between the US and the rest of the world
      - vkou 7y ago
        What do you think FEMA does after a hurricane?
        notyourday 7y ago
        Difference is the orders of magnitude
- reddog 7y ago
  Where does the food come from if nobody is picking it, transporting it, processing it or selling it?
  - standardUser 7y ago
    Food production and distribution has not ceased, nor is there any reason it will. Getting that food to people who cannot afford it is a different issue.
Thriptic 7y ago
It is somewhat amazing to me that politicians don't seem to understand this. The solution is so simple: give people money directly, give money directly to businesses with the promise that they will not fire anyone, and do it yesterday. Perhaps I'm simply misreading the situation and am in a bad mood, but it seems that whenever we see a government program rolled out, politicians seem more interested in preventing fraud, misuse, and politically sensitive spending than they are in seeing the program actually succeed / solve it's stated problem. This results in layers of complexity, regulations, and bullshit that impede the program from functioning efficiently. I would rather a cash transfer program have a 25% fraudulent claim rate and a 90% legitimate claim success rate than a 2% fraudulent claim rate and a 50% legitimate claim success rate. Politicians seem to want the latter. Further, there were arguments during the negotiations about the 2 trillion dollar bail out about abortions and oil subsidies ffs. These guys need to get their heads out of their asses and join us in the real world.
- Meekro 7y ago
  They actually are doing both of those points. Everyone's heard of the $1200 checks to individuals, but they also created the Paycheck Protection Program[1] which advertises itself as a small business loan program but "will forgive loans if all employees are kept on the payroll for eight weeks and the money is used for payroll, rent, mortgage interest, or utilities." In other words, if you run a small business, Uncle Sam will cover your payroll for 2 months if you don't fire anyone. It's the "do it yesterday" part that they're having trouble with. Major banks are saying that the government isn't forthcoming with the details they need to actually implement the lending program, so they've had to delay its launch. [1] https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/coronavirus-relief-options/paycheck-protection-program-ppp https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/coronavirus-relie... [2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianthompson1/2020/04/03/no-small-business-relief-yet-false-start-on-paycheck-protection-program-loans/#110533934c46 https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianthompson1/2020/04/03/no-sm...
  - notyourday 7y ago
    There has never been a single program administered by the SBA that was not comically broken. There are two possibilities: 1. This program is going to continue the great tradition of government epic failures of providing help to small businesses 2. This time around it works and small businesses get an immediate ( in a commercial sense of the word ) help in record time. One won't need to be a genius to figure out the implication of 2. Personally, I think it would be 1.

vkou 7y ago

If you don't want this unrest, start giving people food. The solution is obvious, and is only unpalatable to idealogues.

notyourday 7y ago
There's no centralized system to do this. Everything relies on thousands of little trading businesses. Those businesses are now closed. It will take at best a couple of months to get a different system in place. If that system gets rolled out, the US as the country is over because it is an admission that the US is not capable of maintaining it's existing economic system.
- vkou 7y ago
  All the groceries are currently open. All the farms are currently working, minus migrant labourers, because we would rather have crops rot in the field, than let them into the country. All the truckers are currently hauling. The only part of the distribution system that isn't working very well because of the shutdown is the part that distributes dollars. Any service disruptions right now are not due to the shutdown - they are due to the actual effects of the virus. Look at the MTA. Half of its employees are sick, and the other half have called in sick. Train service has been reduced, and passengers are now packed like sardines in a can on the trains that are still running. Look at the supply chain disruptions - they aren't caused by people being stopped from coming in to work - they are because people can't, or are afraid to come into work. As well they should be, given the state of healthcare in this country. Who is going to pay for their care if they are one of the 20% that need hospitalization after catching it?
  - notyourday 7y ago
    > All the groceries are currently open. That's a talking point. Chinatown grocery stores are mostly closed in both Manhattan and Queens. Patels is closed everywhere. Edit: Downvotes don't protect from reality https://www.patelbros.com/coronavirus https://www.patelbros.com/coronavirus
    - CydeWeys 7y ago
      Enough grocery stores are still open, and grocery delivery services are doing roaring business. We're not remotely (yet?) at risk of people starving from inability to obtain food.
      - notyourday 7y ago
        Non-gigantic grocery stores are going to start closing because contrary to the official positions logistics is broken. Smaller grocery stores have very small margins and operate on COD basis. A friend of mine owns one. His distributors raised prices between 10-50% across the board and removed all the incentives. He does not have enough money to stock up at the new price points so he is slowing the buys, cleaning out inventory and is going to close unless the social distancing goes away by the end of the month. Anecdotally, other small supermarket operators are thinking about doing the same. Effective grocery store prices are 2x - all of the sales have been removed. Eggs in Queens went from $1.69/dozen to $7.99 a dozen. $1200 tax credit for 2020 ( this is what it actually is ) is nothing for people who live and support high cost areas which are the people who allow for the white collar jobs to exist.
        vkou 7y ago
        Are those logistics broken because the government shut the logistics operators down, or because people running them have fallen ill, or are afraid of falling ill? Every state with shutdown orders considers logistics essential services. Nobody but the virus is preventing the people working in them from going to work. I'll repeat it: Nobody working in food production and distribution is forbidden from going to work. If prices are rising, it has nothing to do with the shutdown, and everything to do with the fact that there's a global pandemic... Which will be made worse if lift the shutdown orders. Are you planning on ordering these people back to work at gunpoint, to lower the price of eggs? Or are you going to instead, consider extending a short-term loan, so that the grocer can absorb the price hike? The number of hens laying eggs hasn't changed over the past four weeks.
- mnm1 7y ago
  Of course there is. It's called the National Guard. It's called the US Army, Airforce, and Navy. It's called FEMA. I'm sure there are plenty of other centralized systems with tons of funding ready to do this on a moment's notice. What we don't have is leadership, with an idiot leading this country who said the pandemic is a "hoax."
  - notyourday 7y ago
    The optics of the National Guard (read: men with guns) delivering food for months in the entire United States would trigger a nearly immediate break down of economic ties both internally in the US and between the US and the rest of the world
    - vkou 7y ago
      What do you think FEMA does after a hurricane?
      - notyourday 7y ago
        Difference is the orders of magnitude
reddog 7y ago
Where does the food come from if nobody is picking it, transporting it, processing it or selling it?
- standardUser 7y ago
  Food production and distribution has not ceased, nor is there any reason it will. Getting that food to people who cannot afford it is a different issue.

Thriptic 7y ago

It is somewhat amazing to me that politicians don't seem to understand this. The solution is so simple: give people money directly, give money directly to businesses with the promise that they will not fire anyone, and do it yesterday. Perhaps I'm simply misreading the situation and am in a bad mood, but it seems that whenever we see a government program rolled out, politicians seem more interested in preventing fraud, misuse, and politically sensitive spending than they are in seeing the program actually succeed / solve it's stated problem. This results in layers of complexity, regulations, and bullshit that impede the program from functioning efficiently. I would rather a cash transfer program have a 25% fraudulent claim rate and a 90% legitimate claim success rate than a 2% fraudulent claim rate and a 50% legitimate claim success rate. Politicians seem to want the latter. Further, there were arguments during the negotiations about the 2 trillion dollar bail out about abortions and oil subsidies ffs. These guys need to get their heads out of their asses and join us in the real world.

Meekro 7y ago
They actually are doing both of those points. Everyone's heard of the $1200 checks to individuals, but they also created the Paycheck Protection Program[1] which advertises itself as a small business loan program but "will forgive loans if all employees are kept on the payroll for eight weeks and the money is used for payroll, rent, mortgage interest, or utilities." In other words, if you run a small business, Uncle Sam will cover your payroll for 2 months if you don't fire anyone. It's the "do it yesterday" part that they're having trouble with. Major banks are saying that the government isn't forthcoming with the details they need to actually implement the lending program, so they've had to delay its launch. [1] https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/coronavirus-relief-options/paycheck-protection-program-ppp https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/coronavirus-relie... [2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianthompson1/2020/04/03/no-small-business-relief-yet-false-start-on-paycheck-protection-program-loans/#110533934c46 https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianthompson1/2020/04/03/no-sm...
- notyourday 7y ago
  There has never been a single program administered by the SBA that was not comically broken. There are two possibilities: 1. This program is going to continue the great tradition of government epic failures of providing help to small businesses 2. This time around it works and small businesses get an immediate ( in a commercial sense of the word ) help in record time. One won't need to be a genius to figure out the implication of 2. Personally, I think it would be 1.