12 ms·

Regarding your first paragraph: At least in a lot of european countries, income tax isn't even the most lucrative tax for the government. Additionally quite a

by bosie 7y ago

Regarding your first paragraph: At least in a lot of european countries, income tax isn't even the most lucrative tax for the government. Additionally quite a few working people aren't paying income tax. When you can deduct 13k from your income each year, not many people working for a supermarket are paying income taxes for example. Example, Amazon and VW are creating high revenue in Austria and Germany yet their taxation is laughable. Maybe we shouldn't look that hard at income tax to support UBI

gruez 7y ago
>At least in a lot of european countries, income tax isn't even the most lucrative tax for the government. Can you provide a few examples? What other revenue streams do those governments have?
- greedo 7y ago
  VAT would be the most obvious one.
- nvahalik 7y ago
  Norway has oil. (For now.)
- bosie 7y ago
  In Austria government collects more VAT than it does from income tax. Then you have property tax, car tax (an additional 20% to the already 20% VAT), drugs tax (alcohol, beer, cigarettes ...), gas/fuel tax, flight tax, capital gains tax and probably many more i am forgetting now. those are just consumer taxes though
  - gruez 7y ago
    So going back to your earlier comment: >>UBI isn't a savior. UBI still requires that people, you know, pay taxes. If 30-40% of people have no income and are completely dependent upon the government, then you have slavery 2.0 (3.0?) and you will end up creating a worse, classed society than you had before: the ones receiving vs. those who pay for what everyone else gets. >Regarding your first paragraph: At least in a lot of european countries, income tax isn't even the most lucrative tax for the government. I don't see how shifting your taxes from an income tax to a consumption tax changes anything. Rather than getting taxed to hell on your income, you're getting taxed to hell whenever you try to spend it.
    - bosie 7y ago
      because the argument was that with UBI you would have a loss of income tax and since that is the only tax available to the government, you have a complete loss of tax. if you are shifting to a consumption tax, you would not have a loss.
      - gruez 7y ago
        >if you are shifting to a consumption tax, you would not have a loss. Isn't that just a matter of accounting? If you're going to give people free money, then tax them on it, it's equivalent to simply giving them less free money. In the end you're still taxing the working people.
- 34679 7y ago
  Import/Export tariffs, excise tax (like VAT), payroll tax (also down), corporate tax. Though according to the following link, personal income tax is the largest chunk in the US. https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-are-sources-revenue-federal-government https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-are-sourc...
  - bosie 7y ago
    does the US actually have federal VAT?
machiaweliczny 7y ago
Its true that VAT is prime source od government funding in EU but products need to be made somehow. So taxing scheme doesn't matters that much. UBI is distribution pattern, so there needs to be something to distribute in first place.

by bosie 7y ago

gruez 7y ago

>At least in a lot of european countries, income tax isn't even the most lucrative tax for the government. Can you provide a few examples? What other revenue streams do those governments have?

greedo 7y ago
VAT would be the most obvious one.
nvahalik 7y ago
Norway has oil. (For now.)
bosie 7y ago
In Austria government collects more VAT than it does from income tax. Then you have property tax, car tax (an additional 20% to the already 20% VAT), drugs tax (alcohol, beer, cigarettes ...), gas/fuel tax, flight tax, capital gains tax and probably many more i am forgetting now. those are just consumer taxes though
- gruez 7y ago
  So going back to your earlier comment: >>UBI isn't a savior. UBI still requires that people, you know, pay taxes. If 30-40% of people have no income and are completely dependent upon the government, then you have slavery 2.0 (3.0?) and you will end up creating a worse, classed society than you had before: the ones receiving vs. those who pay for what everyone else gets. >Regarding your first paragraph: At least in a lot of european countries, income tax isn't even the most lucrative tax for the government. I don't see how shifting your taxes from an income tax to a consumption tax changes anything. Rather than getting taxed to hell on your income, you're getting taxed to hell whenever you try to spend it.
  - bosie 7y ago
    because the argument was that with UBI you would have a loss of income tax and since that is the only tax available to the government, you have a complete loss of tax. if you are shifting to a consumption tax, you would not have a loss.
    - gruez 7y ago
      >if you are shifting to a consumption tax, you would not have a loss. Isn't that just a matter of accounting? If you're going to give people free money, then tax them on it, it's equivalent to simply giving them less free money. In the end you're still taxing the working people.
34679 7y ago
Import/Export tariffs, excise tax (like VAT), payroll tax (also down), corporate tax. Though according to the following link, personal income tax is the largest chunk in the US. https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-are-sources-revenue-federal-government https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-are-sourc...
- bosie 7y ago
  does the US actually have federal VAT?

machiaweliczny 7y ago

Its true that VAT is prime source od government funding in EU but products need to be made somehow. So taxing scheme doesn't matters that much. UBI is distribution pattern, so there needs to be something to distribute in first place.