7 ms·

NYC today, everywhere else in a few days/weeks. Without universal basic income, we are totally f@cked. 30-40% of people are without income and it's either soup

NYC today, everywhere else in a few days/weeks. Without universal basic income, we are totally f@cked. 30-40% of people are without income and it's either soup kitchens and spike in crime, or UBI.

_curious_ 7y ago
"Without universal basic income, we are totally f@cked." Speak only for yourself.
- JCharante 7y ago
  As in, don't speak for the non-americans or you think this problem isn't going to affect people with savings, because I think that a huge proportion of the population being broke will have consenquences for the rest.
  - tnel77 7y ago
    There are consequences for everyone, but some people may come out ahead on this one. I’ve locked in a crazy low refinancing rate on my mortgage, I’m going to refinance student debt, and my child staying home saves me A LOT since I don’t have to pay for daycare. There are consequences, but I may literally be better off financially (assuming the virus doesn’t get me). Edit: Example of consequences being my high-interest savings account has dropped about 1.5%, but everything else is going well so far.
    - kingkawn 7y ago
      All of your individual benefits are far outweighed by the collective loss of stability
      - tnel77 7y ago
        I never said that this is a good thing. I’m just saying that the suffering will not be evenly distributed.
        _curious_ 7y ago
        Exactly.
  - _curious_ 7y ago
    The latter, and while agree, it doesn't equate to being f'd
nvahalik 7y ago
> Without universal basic income, we are totally f@cked UBI isn't a savior. UBI still requires that people, you know, pay taxes. If 30-40% of people have no income and are completely dependent upon the government, then you have slavery 2.0 (3.0?) and you will end up creating a worse, classed society than you had before: the ones receiving vs. those who pay for what everyone else gets. Or the government just prints money and money doesn't mean anything anymore because the government controls what it is worth. Either way things are not good, but they are not good in a way that just means people starve, it means that the foundation of society is crumbling.
- bigmanwalter 7y ago
  https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/781/373/b1e.png https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/781/373/b1e...
  - nvahalik 7y ago
    https://brrr.money/ https://brrr.money/
  - solotronics 7y ago
    https://youtu.be/RjqWSUPxBZs https://youtu.be/RjqWSUPxBZs
- bosie 7y ago
  Regarding your first paragraph: At least in a lot of european countries, income tax isn't even the most lucrative tax for the government. Additionally quite a few working people aren't paying income tax. When you can deduct 13k from your income each year, not many people working for a supermarket are paying income taxes for example. Example, Amazon and VW are creating high revenue in Austria and Germany yet their taxation is laughable. Maybe we shouldn't look that hard at income tax to support UBI
  - gruez 7y ago
    >At least in a lot of european countries, income tax isn't even the most lucrative tax for the government. Can you provide a few examples? What other revenue streams do those governments have?
_-___________-_ 7y ago
So, without tax income where does the UBI come from? Printing money will just lead to inflation, which could defeat the purpose of the UBI.
- booleandilemma 7y ago
  I predict that UBI will come, but without the "U". The middle class will be taxed more and you'll have a bottom rung getting free money, essentially. The first two $1,200 checks from the government is the start of this.
programmernews3 7y ago
At least if they implement UBI then the need to build the wall on the border will increase. You cant give away money for free and NOT have strong borders.
- zelltech 7y ago
  Not true - technically everything is free so it will be fine to keep giving as-is; the combination will help stimulate the economy and improve the lives of all Americans
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > At least if they implement UBI then the need to build the wall on the border will increase. No, a border wall will remain an ineffective boondoggle that serves only vanity even with a UBI. > You cant give away money for free and NOT have strong borders. First, a UBI is defined as lacking means or behavior testing, that doesn't mean that the universe of recipients isn't either just adult citizens or adults who are either citizens or lawful permanent residents. The higher UBI with either of those recipient pools, the less economically attractive illegal immigration is, especially if UBI replaces or reduces (say, by $1/hr for every $2000/yr of UBI) minimum wage, thereby reducing the attractiveness of under the table sub-minimum wage labor. Second, even if UBI wasn't a tool for stronger borders and did make illegal immigration more attractive, it wouldn't magically change the fact that the border wall isn't a tool for strong borders.
- geofft 7y ago
  There aren't an infinite amount of non-Americans, and they're not all arriving tomorrow. You can figure out what expected growth is and account for it.
gshdg 7y ago
Or food riots.
JackPoach 7y ago
Wow, I am being downvoted for something so obvious. Totally puzzled.

NYC today, everywhere else in a few days/weeks. Without universal basic income, we are totally f@cked. 30-40% of people are without income and it's either soup kitchens and spike in crime, or UBI.

_curious_ 7y ago

"Without universal basic income, we are totally f@cked." Speak only for yourself.

JCharante 7y ago
As in, don't speak for the non-americans or you think this problem isn't going to affect people with savings, because I think that a huge proportion of the population being broke will have consenquences for the rest.
- tnel77 7y ago
  There are consequences for everyone, but some people may come out ahead on this one. I’ve locked in a crazy low refinancing rate on my mortgage, I’m going to refinance student debt, and my child staying home saves me A LOT since I don’t have to pay for daycare. There are consequences, but I may literally be better off financially (assuming the virus doesn’t get me). Edit: Example of consequences being my high-interest savings account has dropped about 1.5%, but everything else is going well so far.
  - kingkawn 7y ago
    All of your individual benefits are far outweighed by the collective loss of stability
    - tnel77 7y ago
      I never said that this is a good thing. I’m just saying that the suffering will not be evenly distributed.
      - _curious_ 7y ago
        Exactly.
- _curious_ 7y ago
  The latter, and while agree, it doesn't equate to being f'd

nvahalik 7y ago

> Without universal basic income, we are totally f@cked UBI isn't a savior. UBI still requires that people, you know, pay taxes. If 30-40% of people have no income and are completely dependent upon the government, then you have slavery 2.0 (3.0?) and you will end up creating a worse, classed society than you had before: the ones receiving vs. those who pay for what everyone else gets. Or the government just prints money and money doesn't mean anything anymore because the government controls what it is worth. Either way things are not good, but they are not good in a way that just means people starve, it means that the foundation of society is crumbling.

bigmanwalter 7y ago
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/781/373/b1e.png https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/781/373/b1e...
- nvahalik 7y ago
  https://brrr.money/ https://brrr.money/
- solotronics 7y ago
  https://youtu.be/RjqWSUPxBZs https://youtu.be/RjqWSUPxBZs
bosie 7y ago
Regarding your first paragraph: At least in a lot of european countries, income tax isn't even the most lucrative tax for the government. Additionally quite a few working people aren't paying income tax. When you can deduct 13k from your income each year, not many people working for a supermarket are paying income taxes for example. Example, Amazon and VW are creating high revenue in Austria and Germany yet their taxation is laughable. Maybe we shouldn't look that hard at income tax to support UBI
- gruez 7y ago
  >At least in a lot of european countries, income tax isn't even the most lucrative tax for the government. Can you provide a few examples? What other revenue streams do those governments have?

_-___________-_ 7y ago

So, without tax income where does the UBI come from? Printing money will just lead to inflation, which could defeat the purpose of the UBI.

booleandilemma 7y ago
I predict that UBI will come, but without the "U". The middle class will be taxed more and you'll have a bottom rung getting free money, essentially. The first two $1,200 checks from the government is the start of this.

programmernews3 7y ago

At least if they implement UBI then the need to build the wall on the border will increase. You cant give away money for free and NOT have strong borders.

zelltech 7y ago
Not true - technically everything is free so it will be fine to keep giving as-is; the combination will help stimulate the economy and improve the lives of all Americans
dragonwriter 7y ago
> At least if they implement UBI then the need to build the wall on the border will increase. No, a border wall will remain an ineffective boondoggle that serves only vanity even with a UBI. > You cant give away money for free and NOT have strong borders. First, a UBI is defined as lacking means or behavior testing, that doesn't mean that the universe of recipients isn't either just adult citizens or adults who are either citizens or lawful permanent residents. The higher UBI with either of those recipient pools, the less economically attractive illegal immigration is, especially if UBI replaces or reduces (say, by $1/hr for every $2000/yr of UBI) minimum wage, thereby reducing the attractiveness of under the table sub-minimum wage labor. Second, even if UBI wasn't a tool for stronger borders and did make illegal immigration more attractive, it wouldn't magically change the fact that the border wall isn't a tool for strong borders.
geofft 7y ago
There aren't an infinite amount of non-Americans, and they're not all arriving tomorrow. You can figure out what expected growth is and account for it.

gshdg 7y ago

Or food riots.

JackPoach 7y ago

Wow, I am being downvoted for something so obvious. Totally puzzled.