+1 re "lifetime-scale project" nature of the work. > it's turned into this whole badly defined spiritual thing, instead of just being about growing as much foo

+1 re "lifetime-scale project" nature of the work. > it's turned into this whole badly defined spiritual thing, instead of just being about growing as much food as possible, with as few inputs as possible, with perennial plants. I recently purchased Bill Mollison's designers manual. From this book, it's clear that the spiritual/ethical component has been integral to permaculture since the beginning. "growing as much food as possible...with perennial plants" is great, but it's a subset of what permaculture is or was about.