5 ms·

Smart talking aside it's possible and relatively easy to identify microbes without growing them. When an immuno-suppresive is effective at reducing symptoms you

Smart talking aside it's possible and relatively easy to identify microbes without growing them. When an immuno-suppresive is effective at reducing symptoms you know it's an autoimmune disorder. You can even find specific anti-bodies in some cases. >You could really ask the same question about Crohn's or IBS. No you couldn't. They are clearly auto-immune disorders. Out of curiosity, do you have any formal training on medicine/physiology or is your knowledge base self-aquired?

smallnamespace 7y ago
There is a growing consensus in immunology/rheumatology that infections may be a major cause of autoimmunity. One mechanism is molecular mimicry - antigens from foreign invaders that are similar to your body’s own proteins trigger your immune system to attack both self and invader. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199912303412707 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199912303412707
- stainforth 7y ago
  Why is the auto-immune response chronic, if say the original infection passes? Or is the infection constant as well?
  - hinkley 7y ago
    Viruses typically invade a cell by latching onto a part of the cell membrane, usually a receptor of some sort. Those receptors are for some biologic process from regulation to nutrition. If it can't mimic any structure it can't reproduce and will be selected out. An antibody is in some ways similar. They latch onto the bacteria or virus, but instead of invading they glom on and then signal the body to come dispose of this thing. If your body picks the wrong feature for the pattern, then the antibody could attach to healthy tissue. Maybe one particular type, like insulin cells, or myelin.
cc81 7y ago
IBS is "clearly not" as it is a diagnosis based more on symptoms (many different) and there is no clear understanding of the cause behind it. And if you look at IBD such as Crohn's or Ulcerative Colitis then sure.
darkerside 7y ago
> When an immuno-suppresive is effective at reducing symptoms you know it's an autoimmune disorder. Aren't there diseases where someone are caused not by the microbe directly but by the body's immune reaction to it? > Out of curiosity, do you have any formal training on medicine/physiology or is your knowledge base self-aquired? Argument from authority (or lack thereof) is pretty contrary to the HN ethos, imo. You're not right because your degree says so, but because the facts do.
- dempedempe 7y ago
  > Aren't there diseases where someone are caused not by the microbe directly but by the body's immune reaction to it? Yep. For example, that's what causes the "cytokine storm" in COVID-19.
- HeadsUpHigh 7y ago
  >Aren't there diseases where someone are caused not by the microbe directly but by the body's immune reaction to it? There are symptoms that can be caused by that. The characteristic of an autoimmune disorder is that the response never ends( either chronic or with flare ups) or takes way longer than a normal one would. > Argument from authority (or lack thereof) is pretty contrary to the HN ethos, imo. You're not right because your degree says so, but because the facts do. What facts did you state then? I'm asking where does your thinking process stems from?
rfrey 7y ago
Your comment appears incredibly arrogant to me. Trivializing detection of auto-immune disorders tells me immediately you have no experience in the field, or if you do you are theory-heavy and practice-light. My daughter has an auto-immune disorder and it took two years and a brain biopsy for the best pediatricians in Canada to determine it was auto-immune related. Of course you may dismiss that by saying there are no good doctors in Canada because they're not from (wherever you're from), but your casual dismissal of the complexity of these disorders is simply wrong. And your last sentence is clearly not just "out of curiosity".
odyssey7 7y ago
> Out of curiosity, do you have any formal training on medicine/physiology or is your knowledge base self-aquired? This isn’t an argument that supports your reasoning. It’s just an appeal to authority. > When an immuno-suppressive is effective at reducing symptoms you know it’s an autoimmune disorder. Is surgery an autoimmune disorder? A lot of doctors will give a patient steroids to reduce inflammation after surgery.
majormajor 7y ago
This seems to ignore the diseases we don't understand, that don't fit clearly those criteria, like PSC.

smallnamespace 7y ago

There is a growing consensus in immunology/rheumatology that infections may be a major cause of autoimmunity. One mechanism is molecular mimicry - antigens from foreign invaders that are similar to your body’s own proteins trigger your immune system to attack both self and invader. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199912303412707 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199912303412707

stainforth 7y ago
Why is the auto-immune response chronic, if say the original infection passes? Or is the infection constant as well?
- hinkley 7y ago
  Viruses typically invade a cell by latching onto a part of the cell membrane, usually a receptor of some sort. Those receptors are for some biologic process from regulation to nutrition. If it can't mimic any structure it can't reproduce and will be selected out. An antibody is in some ways similar. They latch onto the bacteria or virus, but instead of invading they glom on and then signal the body to come dispose of this thing. If your body picks the wrong feature for the pattern, then the antibody could attach to healthy tissue. Maybe one particular type, like insulin cells, or myelin.

cc81 7y ago

IBS is "clearly not" as it is a diagnosis based more on symptoms (many different) and there is no clear understanding of the cause behind it. And if you look at IBD such as Crohn's or Ulcerative Colitis then sure.

darkerside 7y ago

> When an immuno-suppresive is effective at reducing symptoms you know it's an autoimmune disorder. Aren't there diseases where someone are caused not by the microbe directly but by the body's immune reaction to it? > Out of curiosity, do you have any formal training on medicine/physiology or is your knowledge base self-aquired? Argument from authority (or lack thereof) is pretty contrary to the HN ethos, imo. You're not right because your degree says so, but because the facts do.

dempedempe 7y ago
> Aren't there diseases where someone are caused not by the microbe directly but by the body's immune reaction to it? Yep. For example, that's what causes the "cytokine storm" in COVID-19.
HeadsUpHigh 7y ago
>Aren't there diseases where someone are caused not by the microbe directly but by the body's immune reaction to it? There are symptoms that can be caused by that. The characteristic of an autoimmune disorder is that the response never ends( either chronic or with flare ups) or takes way longer than a normal one would. > Argument from authority (or lack thereof) is pretty contrary to the HN ethos, imo. You're not right because your degree says so, but because the facts do. What facts did you state then? I'm asking where does your thinking process stems from?

rfrey 7y ago

Your comment appears incredibly arrogant to me. Trivializing detection of auto-immune disorders tells me immediately you have no experience in the field, or if you do you are theory-heavy and practice-light. My daughter has an auto-immune disorder and it took two years and a brain biopsy for the best pediatricians in Canada to determine it was auto-immune related. Of course you may dismiss that by saying there are no good doctors in Canada because they're not from (wherever you're from), but your casual dismissal of the complexity of these disorders is simply wrong. And your last sentence is clearly not just "out of curiosity".

odyssey7 7y ago

> Out of curiosity, do you have any formal training on medicine/physiology or is your knowledge base self-aquired? This isn’t an argument that supports your reasoning. It’s just an appeal to authority. > When an immuno-suppressive is effective at reducing symptoms you know it’s an autoimmune disorder. Is surgery an autoimmune disorder? A lot of doctors will give a patient steroids to reduce inflammation after surgery.

majormajor 7y ago

This seems to ignore the diseases we don't understand, that don't fit clearly those criteria, like PSC.