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I've really grown to dislike the "China == bad" thing, yes, they're domestically authoritarian, without excusing any of it, I like to act on hard evidence, not

I've really grown to dislike the "China == bad" thing, yes, they're domestically authoritarian, without excusing any of it, I like to act on hard evidence, not hear say, I am stunned that after the Bloomberg fiasco these kind of stories didn't take a hit. P.S. Personally, I don't consider the NSA having my data as being any better, thank you. EDIT: Just to be clear, I don't think Zoom's encryption claims should be trusted, but it's not because CHINAAA, it's because they're misleading people into thinking TLS means E2E.

hash872 7y ago
If encryption keys are stored in a country where the company is required, by law or by force, to turn them over to authorities upon request then that should be noted. And yes that includes the US to a lesser degree. When people say 'the server with the encryption keys is physically located in China, and they have many Chinese employees', the subtext that we should all know at this point is that they're required by Chinese law to turn everything over to the authorities. We have hard evidence & beyond hard evidence of this, so it's kind of assumed that educated people are aware of this. And yes the same goes for say US telecom companies having legally mandated backdoors & the US government exploiting this to conduct unauthorized surveillance or even just purely commercial spying, it's well-documented, everyone should know this. So in the future someone can say 'this telecom company is US-based' and we can all understand the subtext. So it's OK to just say 'the servers are in China' and we should all know what that means, at this point. TLDR- it's OK to have priors
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
scoot_718 7y ago
They also base a lot of their economy on corporate espionage and stealing technology.
petergatsby 7y ago
I've really grown to dislike the "people who presumably consider themselves ethical defending a regime that represses free speech and expression, brutally crushes dissenters, disappears ethical doctors, is led by a 'president for life' dictator, and has literally hauled off 1M muslims to internment campus where their organs are being harvested and their culture is being erased, thing".
- evidencebased 7y ago
  "has literally hauled off 1M muslims to internment campus where their organs are being harvested and their culture is being erased, thing" Citation needed on the '1M', 'organs...harvested', 'culture...erased'.
  - zepto 7y ago
    First Page Of Google.
    - evidencebased 7y ago
      I don't believe everything I see on the first page of Google, and you shouldn't either.
      - zepto 7y ago
        You have been given the citations you asked for, but now you want something specific but you haven’t said what. What are your criteria for something you wouldn’t just dismiss?
        evidencebased 6y ago
        >You have been given the citations you asked for I disagree. I see a lot of speculation not actual proof. >you want something specific but you haven’t said what. What are your criteria for something you wouldn’t just dismiss? How about proof to back up these claims? It's amazing how some people can be so invested in a story that they'll throw basic logical reasoning out the window.

hash872 7y ago

If encryption keys are stored in a country where the company is required, by law or by force, to turn them over to authorities upon request then that should be noted. And yes that includes the US to a lesser degree. When people say 'the server with the encryption keys is physically located in China, and they have many Chinese employees', the subtext that we should all know at this point is that they're required by Chinese law to turn everything over to the authorities. We have hard evidence & beyond hard evidence of this, so it's kind of assumed that educated people are aware of this. And yes the same goes for say US telecom companies having legally mandated backdoors & the US government exploiting this to conduct unauthorized surveillance or even just purely commercial spying, it's well-documented, everyone should know this. So in the future someone can say 'this telecom company is US-based' and we can all understand the subtext. So it's OK to just say 'the servers are in China' and we should all know what that means, at this point. TLDR- it's OK to have priors

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

scoot_718 7y ago

They also base a lot of their economy on corporate espionage and stealing technology.

petergatsby 7y ago

I've really grown to dislike the "people who presumably consider themselves ethical defending a regime that represses free speech and expression, brutally crushes dissenters, disappears ethical doctors, is led by a 'president for life' dictator, and has literally hauled off 1M muslims to internment campus where their organs are being harvested and their culture is being erased, thing".

evidencebased 7y ago
"has literally hauled off 1M muslims to internment campus where their organs are being harvested and their culture is being erased, thing" Citation needed on the '1M', 'organs...harvested', 'culture...erased'.
- zepto 7y ago
  First Page Of Google.
  - evidencebased 7y ago
    I don't believe everything I see on the first page of Google, and you shouldn't either.
    - zepto 7y ago
      You have been given the citations you asked for, but now you want something specific but you haven’t said what. What are your criteria for something you wouldn’t just dismiss?
      - evidencebased 6y ago
        >You have been given the citations you asked for I disagree. I see a lot of speculation not actual proof. >you want something specific but you haven’t said what. What are your criteria for something you wouldn’t just dismiss? How about proof to back up these claims? It's amazing how some people can be so invested in a story that they'll throw basic logical reasoning out the window.