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This is a common notion that I am yet to understand or relate to... What does "still slowly killing us" even mean? Life is slowly killing us because everyone e

This is a common notion that I am yet to understand or relate to... What does "still slowly killing us" even mean? Life is slowly killing us because everyone everywhere is getting old and is dying. It has been that way since the first multi-cell organism. What does this have to do with our way of life? If our current way of life is killing us slower than all other previous ways of life, then it is surely better than them? What kind of characterization is it even, what does it accomplish? What is "a way of life" anyway? Sedentary, no-sports? Eating farm-produced food? Watching TV? Having clothes? Driving cars? Living in individual houses instead of big villages?

marcus_holmes 7y ago
We don't face any struggles in our lives. This leads to depression. I'm not criticising our culture or way of life. We naturally want to spend our lives comfortably at peace. We have managed to improve our lives, generation over generation, to the point now where the average person can reasonably expect to live their entire life without fear of violence or starvation and die of natural causes in their 80's. But just like how eating all the high-calorie food we want leads to diabetes, because our bodies are evolved to a much less calorific diet (and periodic starvation), we evolved to face more challenges. The lack of fear and the ease of our survival leads to mental health problems because we have the luxury of wondering wtf we're doing here, instead of wondering how we're going to survive until next week. Exercise helps with depression, partly because it's not easy, it requires effort and discipline and it's not "fun". Forcing yourself to get out of the house and go for a run is difficult (I know, I went through clinical depression and had to force myself to do this. Still do). It does the same for your body - stresses it to make it more healthy. Hopefully it'll change. As following generations get used to lives without struggle or fear or starvation they'll adapt and be more mentally healthy. We'll also conquer diabetes, somehow, I'm sure.
- watwut 7y ago
  Many people face struggles in their lives. Can be struggling to pay the bills, sickness, mental health problems, abuse at home or work, loneliness and so on. These did happen int he past too, but it is just not true that people today don't face struggles. > Exercise helps with depression, partly because it's not easy, it requires effort and discipline and it's not "fun". Forcing yourself to get out of the house and go for a run is difficult (I know, I went through clinical depression and had to force myself to do this. Still do). It does the same for your body - stresses it to make it more healthy. Exercise is and can be fun. And there are enough forms of exercise to take the one that matches your personality. People get addicted to exercise and many people overdo it - even injuring themselves for fun. The struggle to go out was not because exercise is inherently not fun, but because you had depression.
  - pubstik 7y ago
    Lonliness is not struggle in the same way we struggled to survive for thousands of years not knowing what next week would bring. Your examples kind of bear out his point.
    - watwut 7y ago
      Then again, the thousands of years mentioned here are kind of imagined history. The acute life threat of war times and famine was not constant. While 21 century west have higher life expectancy then the past, the "don't know what next week brings" is not how majority of history works. There are such unstable periods (world wars etc) that get changed for stable periods. Second, parent said that we don't face any struggle which leads to depression. That is not true on any point. People struggle, they are poor or in pain. Third, unstable periods make mental health issues go worst. Including depression. They also make consequences of those mental health issues worst - meaning depressed person is more likely to die, get hurt or hurt others.
  - marcus_holmes 7y ago
    Having your house bombed, being drafted and forced to fight a war. Having most of your family die of plague. Being raped repeatedly by a rich man with no way of ending it because you're poor. These are struggles. Trying to work out how to pay your bills, or get up on a Monday morning to face your job, are not in the same league. Exercise was used as a punishment during most of my schooling. It's not "fun" (otherwise the punishment wouldn't work). "drop and give me 20" is a punishment, not a reward. Getting addicted to something doesn't mean it's "fun". You may enjoy exercise. Good for you, I'm jealous. Wish I did. But the reality for the majority of people out there is that it's a chore that they'd rather not do if at all possible. And thanks for telling me about my depression. Please, go on, tell me more about my life that you clearly understand so much better than me...
- jader201 7y ago
  > We don't face any struggles in our lives. This leads to depression. I’ve never heard this before, and that’s a bold claim to make so matter-of-fact without a reference. Do you have one?
  - pubstik 7y ago
    Social struggle is quite different than the day-to-day struggle to survive that was the default until recently on the human scale. Not sure that needs a reference.
    - jader201 7y ago
      I wasn’t referring to whether we face fewer struggles. What I think needs citation is that this causes depression.
      - marcus_holmes 7y ago
        There has been some work on it. There is a higher prevalence of depression in our modern society. Other societies facing more struggles are less prone to depression. It makes sense, if you think about it - if you're struggling to feed yourself and your family, you're not happy, but you're also not depressed. You haven't got time to be depressed. Of course, there's other interpretations: people with depression would have not bothered to get up to feed themselves, because what's the point? They would be early victims of whatever violence the society was under. I've seen similar while travelling. Poor societies with better family connections are less depressed. Mentally unwell people are looked after by their families. Everyone seems happier and more content with their lives, despite being materially poorer. Returning to Australia after a year away in Cambodia, my first impression was "why is everyone so unhappy and angry?". It's strange. We have everything, yet we're unhappy.
CalRobert 7y ago
It may have been a poetic way to describe the feeling some people have that while we are alive, we are not doing the things that make a life, so to speak. I don't know how to put it succinctly, but a single comment on HN months ago described the feeling. Is it true? I don't know, I don't have "myself but living as a thousand years ago" to compare. We do know that people's social circles, e.g. the number of close friends people describe themselves as having, has been shrinking. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20470085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20470085 """ The Screen and the Job have displaced almost everything else is our lives. Loneliness is just a primary symptom. The Screen, whether it’s TV, computer, or phone, has supplanted almost all social interactions. This manifests itself in things like SitComs on TV (just a bunch of friends or family hanging out) or Social Media on phones. It’s very easy to fill the social needs of right now with a Screen. But under even a minuscule amount of self reflection these are revealed as hollow substitutes for real human interaction. The Job has completely taken over as a driving force in evaluating choices. The average person has to consider all options in the light of both the current employer and the specter of tomorrow’s. Moving across the country for a high paying job? Great! Moving to be closer to friends? That’s a career killer. No wonder we are lonely. We make choices in the short term that optimize happiness, often at the expense of our relationships. Ghosting is not just for dates now. Then turn around and make choices in the long term that optimize employability at the expense of all else. """
qplex 7y ago
>Sedentary, no-sports? Eating farm-produced food? Watching TV? Having clothes? Driving cars? Yes. You're getting there... You know those great clouds of smog that surround cities? That kind of stuff. It's not just "driving cars". The ecosystem is completely fucked because of over- and mis-use of technology.

marcus_holmes 7y ago

We don't face any struggles in our lives. This leads to depression. I'm not criticising our culture or way of life. We naturally want to spend our lives comfortably at peace. We have managed to improve our lives, generation over generation, to the point now where the average person can reasonably expect to live their entire life without fear of violence or starvation and die of natural causes in their 80's. But just like how eating all the high-calorie food we want leads to diabetes, because our bodies are evolved to a much less calorific diet (and periodic starvation), we evolved to face more challenges. The lack of fear and the ease of our survival leads to mental health problems because we have the luxury of wondering wtf we're doing here, instead of wondering how we're going to survive until next week. Exercise helps with depression, partly because it's not easy, it requires effort and discipline and it's not "fun". Forcing yourself to get out of the house and go for a run is difficult (I know, I went through clinical depression and had to force myself to do this. Still do). It does the same for your body - stresses it to make it more healthy. Hopefully it'll change. As following generations get used to lives without struggle or fear or starvation they'll adapt and be more mentally healthy. We'll also conquer diabetes, somehow, I'm sure.

watwut 7y ago
Many people face struggles in their lives. Can be struggling to pay the bills, sickness, mental health problems, abuse at home or work, loneliness and so on. These did happen int he past too, but it is just not true that people today don't face struggles. > Exercise helps with depression, partly because it's not easy, it requires effort and discipline and it's not "fun". Forcing yourself to get out of the house and go for a run is difficult (I know, I went through clinical depression and had to force myself to do this. Still do). It does the same for your body - stresses it to make it more healthy. Exercise is and can be fun. And there are enough forms of exercise to take the one that matches your personality. People get addicted to exercise and many people overdo it - even injuring themselves for fun. The struggle to go out was not because exercise is inherently not fun, but because you had depression.
- pubstik 7y ago
  Lonliness is not struggle in the same way we struggled to survive for thousands of years not knowing what next week would bring. Your examples kind of bear out his point.
  - watwut 7y ago
    Then again, the thousands of years mentioned here are kind of imagined history. The acute life threat of war times and famine was not constant. While 21 century west have higher life expectancy then the past, the "don't know what next week brings" is not how majority of history works. There are such unstable periods (world wars etc) that get changed for stable periods. Second, parent said that we don't face any struggle which leads to depression. That is not true on any point. People struggle, they are poor or in pain. Third, unstable periods make mental health issues go worst. Including depression. They also make consequences of those mental health issues worst - meaning depressed person is more likely to die, get hurt or hurt others.
- marcus_holmes 7y ago
  Having your house bombed, being drafted and forced to fight a war. Having most of your family die of plague. Being raped repeatedly by a rich man with no way of ending it because you're poor. These are struggles. Trying to work out how to pay your bills, or get up on a Monday morning to face your job, are not in the same league. Exercise was used as a punishment during most of my schooling. It's not "fun" (otherwise the punishment wouldn't work). "drop and give me 20" is a punishment, not a reward. Getting addicted to something doesn't mean it's "fun". You may enjoy exercise. Good for you, I'm jealous. Wish I did. But the reality for the majority of people out there is that it's a chore that they'd rather not do if at all possible. And thanks for telling me about my depression. Please, go on, tell me more about my life that you clearly understand so much better than me...
jader201 7y ago
> We don't face any struggles in our lives. This leads to depression. I’ve never heard this before, and that’s a bold claim to make so matter-of-fact without a reference. Do you have one?
- pubstik 7y ago
  Social struggle is quite different than the day-to-day struggle to survive that was the default until recently on the human scale. Not sure that needs a reference.
  - jader201 7y ago
    I wasn’t referring to whether we face fewer struggles. What I think needs citation is that this causes depression.
    - marcus_holmes 7y ago
      There has been some work on it. There is a higher prevalence of depression in our modern society. Other societies facing more struggles are less prone to depression. It makes sense, if you think about it - if you're struggling to feed yourself and your family, you're not happy, but you're also not depressed. You haven't got time to be depressed. Of course, there's other interpretations: people with depression would have not bothered to get up to feed themselves, because what's the point? They would be early victims of whatever violence the society was under. I've seen similar while travelling. Poor societies with better family connections are less depressed. Mentally unwell people are looked after by their families. Everyone seems happier and more content with their lives, despite being materially poorer. Returning to Australia after a year away in Cambodia, my first impression was "why is everyone so unhappy and angry?". It's strange. We have everything, yet we're unhappy.

CalRobert 7y ago

It may have been a poetic way to describe the feeling some people have that while we are alive, we are not doing the things that make a life, so to speak. I don't know how to put it succinctly, but a single comment on HN months ago described the feeling. Is it true? I don't know, I don't have "myself but living as a thousand years ago" to compare. We do know that people's social circles, e.g. the number of close friends people describe themselves as having, has been shrinking. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20470085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20470085 """ The Screen and the Job have displaced almost everything else is our lives. Loneliness is just a primary symptom. The Screen, whether it’s TV, computer, or phone, has supplanted almost all social interactions. This manifests itself in things like SitComs on TV (just a bunch of friends or family hanging out) or Social Media on phones. It’s very easy to fill the social needs of right now with a Screen. But under even a minuscule amount of self reflection these are revealed as hollow substitutes for real human interaction. The Job has completely taken over as a driving force in evaluating choices. The average person has to consider all options in the light of both the current employer and the specter of tomorrow’s. Moving across the country for a high paying job? Great! Moving to be closer to friends? That’s a career killer. No wonder we are lonely. We make choices in the short term that optimize happiness, often at the expense of our relationships. Ghosting is not just for dates now. Then turn around and make choices in the long term that optimize employability at the expense of all else. """

qplex 7y ago

>Sedentary, no-sports? Eating farm-produced food? Watching TV? Having clothes? Driving cars? Yes. You're getting there... You know those great clouds of smog that surround cities? That kind of stuff. It's not just "driving cars". The ecosystem is completely fucked because of over- and mis-use of technology.