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> Apple was planning to price the new model from $399 I've been wanting to get off "Google play services" and into a smaller, cheaper phone. I don't need the h

> Apple was planning to price the new model from $399 I've been wanting to get off "Google play services" and into a smaller, cheaper phone. I don't need the huge screen and tons of features like my Pixel 2 XL has, I just need a phone, messaging, maps, and sometimes the internet to pay bills and 400 bucks is a pretty good price for a few years of that vs. I think I paid 1200 for my Pixel 2 XL (and the same for my wife!). With this, I could get one for each of us and a spare for the same price as a single phone and lose the Google privacy-ending bullshit at the same time.

bebna 7y ago
U know that especially pixel phones can be unlocked[0] for alternative roms without google? Alternatively you can debloat an android with a desktop thanks to adb, when you don't want to unlock and reset your phone for a new rom. There are already enough open source alternatives to replace Google software from android phones. Even some who replace Google play services for the apps that need it, while only having minimal contact with Google servers. Especially with your needs it is really easy to go Google free on the phone you already own. In any other place I would think you just don't know better, but here it just sounds like an excuse. [0] https://forum.xda-developers.com/pixel-2-xl/how-to https://forum.xda-developers.com/pixel-2-xl/how-to
- f6v 7y ago
  I guess some people want something that "just works".
  - beojan 7y ago
    An iPhone really doesn't "just work" if you're used to Android.
    - neuronic 7y ago
      What? I moved from Android to iPhone during iPhone 7 and it didn't take more than 10mins to "get used to it". No, I can't ssh into my phone now, but whatever?
      - hadlock 7y ago
        I've been struggling to use my wife's iPhone now for three years, it is like trying to read hieroglyphs. I wouldn't wish an iPhone upon any person, especially if they do fast app switching.
        nielsbot 7y ago
        It's just a single swipe?
        hadlock 7y ago
        You need to know that swipe gesture exists, and which direction to do it, since there's no buttons on the screen. There's no visual cues for new users.
        girvo 7y ago
        It's quite literally as fast and exactly as many inputs as Android. They've copied each others strengths for so many years, that frankly I can't understand opinions like yours, as much as I'd like to
        close04 7y ago
        Admittedly on (some?) Android phones switching between the last 2 used apps is a double tap of the Overview button. Marginally faster than either of the 2 methods used on iPhones (Touch/FaceID). This being said I'm sure OP's statements are just gross exaggerations based on their personal (dis)preference. Even if continuously switching between apps was their day job the difference is so small it's irrelevant. And anyone who's able to operate one of the phones is perfectly able to operate the other.
    - girvo 7y ago
      As someone who used android from the release of the Xperia X10 up until ICS and then intermittently from then on, that’s nowhere near as true as you have confidently stated. They’re more similar than they are different.
    - battery_cowboy 7y ago
      I trust Apple more than I trust some ROM maker not to install telemetry or something more sinister, honestly. Might be misplaced, but I can more easily trust Apple has a financial incentive, if nothing else, to not to bad shit, whereas the unknown 3rd party could be a cool person who is doing it for fun, or they could be a state-sponsored hacker trying to get as much malware on the devices of technologists as possible.
    - rorykoehler 7y ago
      I use both on a daily basis and I'm struggling to understand what you mean?
- pzmarzly 7y ago
  I lived without Google Play Services on Android for 3 years before moving to iOS, and while it was a decent experience when all you need is a tiny computer (web browsing, videos via VLC and NewPipe), it lacked what one would expect of smartphone (no location services augmenting GPS, no mobile banking, most chat apps were broken in some way) and even „dumb” phones (the custom ROM I used had a bug where it often wouldn’t let me hear anything in an incoming call, probably something with VoLTE, but I don’t recall whether I ever fixed it). The iPhone is a complete opposite - multimedia and web browsing sucks, but GPS, permission model and Apple Pay are executed nicely.
  - battery_cowboy 7y ago
    > multimedia and web browsing sucks, but GPS, permission model and Apple Pay are executed nicely Just what I wanted.
throwaway9d0291 7y ago
I was in a similar position but after monitoring the traffic made by my iPhone, I ended up going back to Android (though not stock). The problem isn't Apple, Apple is great when it comes to their stock apps. The problem is all the third party apps you end up installing. They just don't care about your privacy. Half of them will bundle "analytics" that you have no power to turn off and there isn't the same open-source community for iOS that there is for Android. What I ended up with is an open-source ROM with MicroG (in my case a custom build of AOSP but LineageOS + NanoDroid, LineageOS for MicroG or Elementary OS all work) with open-source apps for most purposes. This way the only proprietary code running as part of the OS is the device drivers. Everything else is open-source. Practically, pretty much everything works except for in-app payments. Those will work if you install the modified Play Store that's distributed as part of NanoDroid but that means installing the Play Store as a privileged app, which brings you right back to the original problem. As for apps, I mainly use Maps from F-Droid (open-source build of Maps.me), OsmAnd, FairEmail, Riot, Fennec, Slide for Reddit and Bitwarden. These are all open-source. The main closed-source apps I have installed are the local public transportation app (I'm in a country with strong privacy protections, so I trust it), the government-provided weather app and the usual financial stuff. At some point I'll install a firewall for those too. I want to emphasise that I don't feel like I'm giving anything up with this setup. The only thing that doesn't really work is in-app payments. I'm using a Pixel phone so I can even sign the ROM with my own private key and lock the bootloader so that nothing else can be flashed.
- jorvi 7y ago
  The biggest issue with going that way is that a lot of financial apps refuse to run on rooted and/or custom ROMs. Neither does Netflix.
  - throwaway9d0291 7y ago
    Of the options I suggested, only NanoDroid requires root, the others work perfectly fine without it. MicroG does provide a SafetyNet implementation but YMMV. FWIW, all of my financial apps are perfectly happy running on my phone, even though SafetyNet mostly fails. They don't like root though.
friendly_fren 7y ago
Why would you buy a cheaper phone when you already have an older high-end one? You don't need to upgrade every few years.
xouse 7y ago
As far as cost goes, I paid $250 for my pixel 3xl in near mint condition. New phones lose so much value in their first year that you can buy them for a fraction of their retail value. I can keep it till it's no longer supported in oct 2021 and sell it and buy another great phone for $2-300 and repeat every 2ish years. The premium on buying brand new phones is outrageous.

bebna 7y ago

U know that especially pixel phones can be unlocked[0] for alternative roms without google? Alternatively you can debloat an android with a desktop thanks to adb, when you don't want to unlock and reset your phone for a new rom. There are already enough open source alternatives to replace Google software from android phones. Even some who replace Google play services for the apps that need it, while only having minimal contact with Google servers. Especially with your needs it is really easy to go Google free on the phone you already own. In any other place I would think you just don't know better, but here it just sounds like an excuse. [0] https://forum.xda-developers.com/pixel-2-xl/how-to https://forum.xda-developers.com/pixel-2-xl/how-to

f6v 7y ago
I guess some people want something that "just works".
- beojan 7y ago
  An iPhone really doesn't "just work" if you're used to Android.
  - neuronic 7y ago
    What? I moved from Android to iPhone during iPhone 7 and it didn't take more than 10mins to "get used to it". No, I can't ssh into my phone now, but whatever?
    - hadlock 7y ago
      I've been struggling to use my wife's iPhone now for three years, it is like trying to read hieroglyphs. I wouldn't wish an iPhone upon any person, especially if they do fast app switching.
      - nielsbot 7y ago
        It's just a single swipe?
        hadlock 7y ago
        You need to know that swipe gesture exists, and which direction to do it, since there's no buttons on the screen. There's no visual cues for new users.
      - girvo 7y ago
        It's quite literally as fast and exactly as many inputs as Android. They've copied each others strengths for so many years, that frankly I can't understand opinions like yours, as much as I'd like to
        close04 7y ago
        Admittedly on (some?) Android phones switching between the last 2 used apps is a double tap of the Overview button. Marginally faster than either of the 2 methods used on iPhones (Touch/FaceID). This being said I'm sure OP's statements are just gross exaggerations based on their personal (dis)preference. Even if continuously switching between apps was their day job the difference is so small it's irrelevant. And anyone who's able to operate one of the phones is perfectly able to operate the other.
  - girvo 7y ago
    As someone who used android from the release of the Xperia X10 up until ICS and then intermittently from then on, that’s nowhere near as true as you have confidently stated. They’re more similar than they are different.
  - battery_cowboy 7y ago
    I trust Apple more than I trust some ROM maker not to install telemetry or something more sinister, honestly. Might be misplaced, but I can more easily trust Apple has a financial incentive, if nothing else, to not to bad shit, whereas the unknown 3rd party could be a cool person who is doing it for fun, or they could be a state-sponsored hacker trying to get as much malware on the devices of technologists as possible.
  - rorykoehler 7y ago
    I use both on a daily basis and I'm struggling to understand what you mean?
pzmarzly 7y ago
I lived without Google Play Services on Android for 3 years before moving to iOS, and while it was a decent experience when all you need is a tiny computer (web browsing, videos via VLC and NewPipe), it lacked what one would expect of smartphone (no location services augmenting GPS, no mobile banking, most chat apps were broken in some way) and even „dumb” phones (the custom ROM I used had a bug where it often wouldn’t let me hear anything in an incoming call, probably something with VoLTE, but I don’t recall whether I ever fixed it). The iPhone is a complete opposite - multimedia and web browsing sucks, but GPS, permission model and Apple Pay are executed nicely.
- battery_cowboy 7y ago
  > multimedia and web browsing sucks, but GPS, permission model and Apple Pay are executed nicely Just what I wanted.

throwaway9d0291 7y ago

I was in a similar position but after monitoring the traffic made by my iPhone, I ended up going back to Android (though not stock). The problem isn't Apple, Apple is great when it comes to their stock apps. The problem is all the third party apps you end up installing. They just don't care about your privacy. Half of them will bundle "analytics" that you have no power to turn off and there isn't the same open-source community for iOS that there is for Android. What I ended up with is an open-source ROM with MicroG (in my case a custom build of AOSP but LineageOS + NanoDroid, LineageOS for MicroG or Elementary OS all work) with open-source apps for most purposes. This way the only proprietary code running as part of the OS is the device drivers. Everything else is open-source. Practically, pretty much everything works except for in-app payments. Those will work if you install the modified Play Store that's distributed as part of NanoDroid but that means installing the Play Store as a privileged app, which brings you right back to the original problem. As for apps, I mainly use Maps from F-Droid (open-source build of Maps.me), OsmAnd, FairEmail, Riot, Fennec, Slide for Reddit and Bitwarden. These are all open-source. The main closed-source apps I have installed are the local public transportation app (I'm in a country with strong privacy protections, so I trust it), the government-provided weather app and the usual financial stuff. At some point I'll install a firewall for those too. I want to emphasise that I don't feel like I'm giving anything up with this setup. The only thing that doesn't really work is in-app payments. I'm using a Pixel phone so I can even sign the ROM with my own private key and lock the bootloader so that nothing else can be flashed.

jorvi 7y ago
The biggest issue with going that way is that a lot of financial apps refuse to run on rooted and/or custom ROMs. Neither does Netflix.
- throwaway9d0291 7y ago
  Of the options I suggested, only NanoDroid requires root, the others work perfectly fine without it. MicroG does provide a SafetyNet implementation but YMMV. FWIW, all of my financial apps are perfectly happy running on my phone, even though SafetyNet mostly fails. They don't like root though.

friendly_fren 7y ago

Why would you buy a cheaper phone when you already have an older high-end one? You don't need to upgrade every few years.

xouse 7y ago

As far as cost goes, I paid $250 for my pixel 3xl in near mint condition. New phones lose so much value in their first year that you can buy them for a fraction of their retail value. I can keep it till it's no longer supported in oct 2021 and sell it and buy another great phone for $2-300 and repeat every 2ish years. The premium on buying brand new phones is outrageous.