6 ms·

I happen to know a few people in the larger "primitive" community in the Pacific Northwest, though I am not one myself. I can't speak for them but have know the

by cco 7y ago

I happen to know a few people in the larger "primitive" community in the Pacific Northwest, though I am not one myself. I can't speak for them but have know them for >10 years and am pretty close with some. Feel free to ask me any questions and I can do my best to answer.

zemvpferreira 7y ago
Thanks! I’m curious to know how they handle health problems, big and small. Do they use modern medicine as indiscriminately as one of us would?
- cco 7y ago
  Definitely not as indiscriminately. Interestingly a large number of these people went down this path initially because of chronic health problems, e.g. autoimmune issues; things that our modern medical system is not great at diagnosing or treating but sometimes radical diet changes or the like can alleviate symptoms. For most run-of-the-mill things they'll just use natural remedies which, if you have no experience with them, can be surprisingly effective. Aspirin was derived from willow bark, chewing that bark gets rid of a headache just as well. With that said when things get serious and/or acute, the people I know do still use modern medicine as a backstop. If someone were to break their leg and have a piece of bone sticking out of their skin, I'm certain they would go to a hospital. Or for instance if they couldn't breath because they caught covid-19, I'm sure they'd go to a hospital and use a ventilator. There are probably diehards who wouldn't, but those exist in cities too ;)
  - natmaka 7y ago
    Pandemics (COVID-19 included) aren't possible in an usual tribal zone, where population density remains low (because there is not industrial ways to produce food) and people travel much more slowly and rarely than we do (because there is no vehicle). Many (maybe even most(?)) our modern thingies, respirators included, are only useful/necessary because we live as we do. IMHO the bottom line is: are we more happy and fulfilled to live as we do than to live like 'Lynx' (the woman subject of the article) does?
    - masonic 7y ago
      Even tribes trade and combat between themselves. European diseases traveled quite readily between native populations in the Americas.
      - natmaka 7y ago
        They don't combat and trade as intensively and effectively as we do. European diseases traveled because Europeans traveled.
        samatman 7y ago
        This is trivially true, insofar as Europeans traveled to the Americas and brought diseases, notably smallpox, with them. It isn't meaningfully true, however. Smallpox tore through all of North America well before settlers were west of the Appalachians.
        natmaka 7y ago
        It's about the extent. Smallpox was devastating only when people traveled quickly far away. Our current COVID-19 pandemics is only possible to such an extent for the very same reasons.
        int_19h 7y ago
        If you adjust the number of homicides per capita, tribal wars are far more destructive that anything more modern (including WW1&2). It's hard to get the right perspective on it, because hunter-gatherer societies are so small, the death toll from warfare isn't just a large and impersonal number, but specific people's stories. So then we compare it to our nameless millions of dead, and proclaim ourselves to be monsters. But: "Anthropologists formerly idealized band and tribal societies as gentle and nonviolent, because visiting anthropologists observed no murder in a band of 25 people in the course of a three-year study. Of course they didn’t: it’s easy to calculate that a band of a dozen adults and a dozen children, subject to the inevitable deaths occurring anyway for the usual reasons other than murder, could not perpetuate itself if in addition one of its dozen adults murdered another adult every three years. Much more extensive long-term information about band and tribal societies reveals that murder is a leading cause of death. For example, I happened to be visiting New Guinea’s Iyau people at a time when a woman anthropologist was interviewing Iyau women about their life histories. Woman after woman, when asked to name her husband, named several sequential husbands who had died violent deaths. A typical answer went like this: “My first husband was killed by Elopi raiders. My second husband was killed by a man who wanted me, and who became my third husband. That husband was killed by the brother of my second husband, seeking to avenge his murder.” Such biographies prove common for so-called gentle tribespeople and contributed to the acceptance of centralized authority as tribal societies grew larger."
- war1025 7y ago
  > Do they use modern medicine as indiscriminately as one of us would? As someone who pays ridiculous money for a too-high-deductible insurance plan, going to the doctor is a "someone is pretty badly sick or injured" event. I have friends with a roughly zero deductible plan they get super cheap from their employer. Seems like they are at the doctor every other week. Have a tickle in your throat? Might as well go have a doctor look at it. The American health system is so vastly unequal even among the fairly well-to-do that it's honestly depressing. And that's when there isn't a global pandemic going on.
sparrish 7y ago
Is the body odor as bad as I imagine it is?
- cco 7y ago
  Yes.
- mtnGoat 7y ago
  The one guy i know that lives like this... his feet! oh god, do they smell. So much so, you don't notice the rest so much. You'd think being barefoot so much would air them out.
sambroner 7y ago
Are members of the primitive community living in villages, solo, or small groups? Do they follow hunting laws (tags and license)? Do they live on public or private land, if public do they try to grow crops?
- cco 7y ago
  > Are members of the primitive community living in villages, solo, or small groups? Mostly in/near small towns like Twisp. Some live in nomadic groups, often matriarchal which is interesting. The only people I know who live solo are young men "on the trail", most shepherd herds of livestock and are alone much of the year but these people are rare. > Do they follow hunting laws (tags and license)? Some do, some don't. I would say that they are slightly more inclined to break hunting laws than your normal rural resident. That is to say, both groups are pretty comfortable breaking the law when no rangers are around though the primitive community a) is only ever hunting for food and b) is much more interested in preserving herd health. They also very routinely eat roadkill or dumpster dive. > Do they live on public or private land, if public do they try to grow crops? Mix of both, depends on how settled they are. Those that are nomadic often spend some time on public land, those people obviously don't grow crops since they move throughout the year but gathering wild food is a staple for sure. Often this wild food is formerly cultivated land, e.g. former fruit orchards that are now feral.
  - floren 7y ago
    > Some do, some don't. I would say that they are slightly more inclined to break hunting laws than your normal rural resident. That is to say, both groups are pretty comfortable breaking the law when no rangers are around though the primitive community a) is only ever hunting for food and b) is much more interested in preserving herd health. They also very routinely eat roadkill or dumpster dive. Poachers are the lowest form of life. Though I respect a decision to live simply, the wild game of America is owned by the people and held in public trust by the state governments; ignoring this because you think you're special endangers the conservation efforts of the state biologists.
  - sambroner 7y ago

by cco 7y ago

zemvpferreira 7y ago

Thanks! I’m curious to know how they handle health problems, big and small. Do they use modern medicine as indiscriminately as one of us would?

cco 7y ago
Definitely not as indiscriminately. Interestingly a large number of these people went down this path initially because of chronic health problems, e.g. autoimmune issues; things that our modern medical system is not great at diagnosing or treating but sometimes radical diet changes or the like can alleviate symptoms. For most run-of-the-mill things they'll just use natural remedies which, if you have no experience with them, can be surprisingly effective. Aspirin was derived from willow bark, chewing that bark gets rid of a headache just as well. With that said when things get serious and/or acute, the people I know do still use modern medicine as a backstop. If someone were to break their leg and have a piece of bone sticking out of their skin, I'm certain they would go to a hospital. Or for instance if they couldn't breath because they caught covid-19, I'm sure they'd go to a hospital and use a ventilator. There are probably diehards who wouldn't, but those exist in cities too ;)
- natmaka 7y ago
  Pandemics (COVID-19 included) aren't possible in an usual tribal zone, where population density remains low (because there is not industrial ways to produce food) and people travel much more slowly and rarely than we do (because there is no vehicle). Many (maybe even most(?)) our modern thingies, respirators included, are only useful/necessary because we live as we do. IMHO the bottom line is: are we more happy and fulfilled to live as we do than to live like 'Lynx' (the woman subject of the article) does?
  - masonic 7y ago
    Even tribes trade and combat between themselves. European diseases traveled quite readily between native populations in the Americas.
    - natmaka 7y ago
      They don't combat and trade as intensively and effectively as we do. European diseases traveled because Europeans traveled.
      - samatman 7y ago
        This is trivially true, insofar as Europeans traveled to the Americas and brought diseases, notably smallpox, with them. It isn't meaningfully true, however. Smallpox tore through all of North America well before settlers were west of the Appalachians.
        natmaka 7y ago
        It's about the extent. Smallpox was devastating only when people traveled quickly far away. Our current COVID-19 pandemics is only possible to such an extent for the very same reasons.
      - int_19h 7y ago
        If you adjust the number of homicides per capita, tribal wars are far more destructive that anything more modern (including WW1&2). It's hard to get the right perspective on it, because hunter-gatherer societies are so small, the death toll from warfare isn't just a large and impersonal number, but specific people's stories. So then we compare it to our nameless millions of dead, and proclaim ourselves to be monsters. But: "Anthropologists formerly idealized band and tribal societies as gentle and nonviolent, because visiting anthropologists observed no murder in a band of 25 people in the course of a three-year study. Of course they didn’t: it’s easy to calculate that a band of a dozen adults and a dozen children, subject to the inevitable deaths occurring anyway for the usual reasons other than murder, could not perpetuate itself if in addition one of its dozen adults murdered another adult every three years. Much more extensive long-term information about band and tribal societies reveals that murder is a leading cause of death. For example, I happened to be visiting New Guinea’s Iyau people at a time when a woman anthropologist was interviewing Iyau women about their life histories. Woman after woman, when asked to name her husband, named several sequential husbands who had died violent deaths. A typical answer went like this: “My first husband was killed by Elopi raiders. My second husband was killed by a man who wanted me, and who became my third husband. That husband was killed by the brother of my second husband, seeking to avenge his murder.” Such biographies prove common for so-called gentle tribespeople and contributed to the acceptance of centralized authority as tribal societies grew larger."
war1025 7y ago
> Do they use modern medicine as indiscriminately as one of us would? As someone who pays ridiculous money for a too-high-deductible insurance plan, going to the doctor is a "someone is pretty badly sick or injured" event. I have friends with a roughly zero deductible plan they get super cheap from their employer. Seems like they are at the doctor every other week. Have a tickle in your throat? Might as well go have a doctor look at it. The American health system is so vastly unequal even among the fairly well-to-do that it's honestly depressing. And that's when there isn't a global pandemic going on.

sparrish 7y ago

Is the body odor as bad as I imagine it is?

cco 7y ago
Yes.
mtnGoat 7y ago
The one guy i know that lives like this... his feet! oh god, do they smell. So much so, you don't notice the rest so much. You'd think being barefoot so much would air them out.

sambroner 7y ago

Are members of the primitive community living in villages, solo, or small groups? Do they follow hunting laws (tags and license)? Do they live on public or private land, if public do they try to grow crops?

cco 7y ago
> Are members of the primitive community living in villages, solo, or small groups? Mostly in/near small towns like Twisp. Some live in nomadic groups, often matriarchal which is interesting. The only people I know who live solo are young men "on the trail", most shepherd herds of livestock and are alone much of the year but these people are rare. > Do they follow hunting laws (tags and license)? Some do, some don't. I would say that they are slightly more inclined to break hunting laws than your normal rural resident. That is to say, both groups are pretty comfortable breaking the law when no rangers are around though the primitive community a) is only ever hunting for food and b) is much more interested in preserving herd health. They also very routinely eat roadkill or dumpster dive. > Do they live on public or private land, if public do they try to grow crops? Mix of both, depends on how settled they are. Those that are nomadic often spend some time on public land, those people obviously don't grow crops since they move throughout the year but gathering wild food is a staple for sure. Often this wild food is formerly cultivated land, e.g. former fruit orchards that are now feral.
- floren 7y ago
  > Some do, some don't. I would say that they are slightly more inclined to break hunting laws than your normal rural resident. That is to say, both groups are pretty comfortable breaking the law when no rangers are around though the primitive community a) is only ever hunting for food and b) is much more interested in preserving herd health. They also very routinely eat roadkill or dumpster dive. Poachers are the lowest form of life. Though I respect a decision to live simply, the wild game of America is owned by the people and held in public trust by the state governments; ignoring this because you think you're special endangers the conservation efforts of the state biologists.
- sambroner 7y ago