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But if you were to receive a personalized, sixteen page sales letter signed by Paul Graham, you'd probably read it multiple times. "The astonishing startup sec

by Matti 16y ago

But if you were to receive a personalized, sixteen page sales letter signed by Paul Graham, you'd probably read it multiple times. "The astonishing startup secrets of Ycombinator's founder Ryan, below I'll reveal an amazing startup plan specifically designed for sole founders. It has a proven 73% success rate. If you're interested in running a SaaS company and you're willing to relocate to the Bay Area, then this letter might be the most important you'll ever read. WARNING: You are not allowed to share the information contained in this letter with anyone else. It's for your eyes only. What you'll read below will at first seem contradictory. It'll fly in the face of everything you currently know about starting and running a business. It'll blow away your current beliefs about product development and customer acquisition. So make sure you sit down, because what I'm about to tell you will possibly change your life forever..."

Klinky 16y ago
[report spam] click This does remind me of the story about a week ago where a "females only" founders Q&A conference run my Ycombinator which turned out to have no female founders at it at all. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2229494 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2229494 Usually when something makes broad claims, for me, it needs to back it up ASAP. Most long form letters over exaggerate, repeat a lot of vague information & then throw in a bunch of unverifiable testimonials(e.g "Bob in Austin, TX writes"). A large portion of copywriters are people who don't use the product, never plan to use the product and are essentially lying about the product. Blah.
- JeremyReeves 16y ago
  You seem to read a lot of BAD salesletters written by lousy copywriters. And THAT is where the difference is. In my letters, my claims are backed up with proof. The testimonials are of people you can call on the phone. And I personally use the product before I even START writing. Bad copy written by an unethical copywriter sucks. Good copy written by a great copywriter will keep your eyes glued on the page as long as they want you reading :)
  - Klinky 16y ago
    Well, it's very easy to manipulate people in need. A lot of these scam sites go after people with medical conditions. Example: "Forbidden Neck Pain Relief", should stay forbidden because it's a lame scam. http://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/www.losethebackpain.com http://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/www.losethebackpain.com They've also clogged up google for the keywords "Jesse Cannone scam" with fake reviews/testimonials. They're selling snake oil. It's typical scam behavior, make outlandish claims, sell cheaply made product at high price, give kick back to affiliate. It doesn't matter if your product sucks, just market the shit out of it & make returning it hard to do or not worth the hassle. It might be worthwhile to sneak in a recurring charge while you're at it. I am pretty sure the overpriced inversion table is similar. Also just because a saw cuts through a car on TV doesn't mean it does it in real life. Using an infomercial as an example of good marketing just shows the quality level that's being aimed at here. There are too many worthless business ventures out there & too many stupid people falling for them. Some of these people though have serious medical problems & are desperate for a cure. Preying on these peoples condition isn't a trait I'd tout. You may be good at writing convertible copy, but just because you've conned yourself into thinking what you write is true, doesn't actually make it so.
    - JeremyReeves 16y ago
      I hate to tell you, but it DOES make it true. Because I personally deal with back and neck pain (fell out of a 25 ft. tree)... have personally used his products... and they personally gave ME relief. I don't promote crappy products. I personally test EVERY single product I promote to make sure it's going to help people.
arepb 16y ago
This is exactly right. It all depends on identifying the right audience. Longer copy is great for people who are prospects for the product; for people who aren't it just looks like a messy sales page.
nhangen 16y ago
If PG sent a letter like that, I'd lose a ton of respect for him because he would've jumped the shark.
blhack 16y ago
The key word there is personalized. If a key member of the silicon valley venture capital community sent me a personalized letter about anything, especially to do with startups, or funding, of course I would listen. If Stephen Hawking sent me a personalized letter, I would read it. If Darren Aronofsky sent me a personalized letter, I would read it. If Warren Buffet sent me a personalized letter, I would read it. If Steve Jobs sent me a personalized letter, I would read it. If Barack Obama sent me a personalized letter, I would read it. If George Bush sent me a personalized letter, I would read it. It's also about the context. I'll read mass-produced essays in Foreign Affairs all day long, because they're written by [mostly] authority figures, not copywriters who are trying to make money off of me.

by Matti 16y ago

Klinky 16y ago

[report spam] click This does remind me of the story about a week ago where a "females only" founders Q&A conference run my Ycombinator which turned out to have no female founders at it at all. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2229494 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2229494 Usually when something makes broad claims, for me, it needs to back it up ASAP. Most long form letters over exaggerate, repeat a lot of vague information & then throw in a bunch of unverifiable testimonials(e.g "Bob in Austin, TX writes"). A large portion of copywriters are people who don't use the product, never plan to use the product and are essentially lying about the product. Blah.

JeremyReeves 16y ago
You seem to read a lot of BAD salesletters written by lousy copywriters. And THAT is where the difference is. In my letters, my claims are backed up with proof. The testimonials are of people you can call on the phone. And I personally use the product before I even START writing. Bad copy written by an unethical copywriter sucks. Good copy written by a great copywriter will keep your eyes glued on the page as long as they want you reading :)
- Klinky 16y ago
  Well, it's very easy to manipulate people in need. A lot of these scam sites go after people with medical conditions. Example: "Forbidden Neck Pain Relief", should stay forbidden because it's a lame scam. http://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/www.losethebackpain.com http://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/www.losethebackpain.com They've also clogged up google for the keywords "Jesse Cannone scam" with fake reviews/testimonials. They're selling snake oil. It's typical scam behavior, make outlandish claims, sell cheaply made product at high price, give kick back to affiliate. It doesn't matter if your product sucks, just market the shit out of it & make returning it hard to do or not worth the hassle. It might be worthwhile to sneak in a recurring charge while you're at it. I am pretty sure the overpriced inversion table is similar. Also just because a saw cuts through a car on TV doesn't mean it does it in real life. Using an infomercial as an example of good marketing just shows the quality level that's being aimed at here. There are too many worthless business ventures out there & too many stupid people falling for them. Some of these people though have serious medical problems & are desperate for a cure. Preying on these peoples condition isn't a trait I'd tout. You may be good at writing convertible copy, but just because you've conned yourself into thinking what you write is true, doesn't actually make it so.
  - JeremyReeves 16y ago
    I hate to tell you, but it DOES make it true. Because I personally deal with back and neck pain (fell out of a 25 ft. tree)... have personally used his products... and they personally gave ME relief. I don't promote crappy products. I personally test EVERY single product I promote to make sure it's going to help people.

arepb 16y ago

This is exactly right. It all depends on identifying the right audience. Longer copy is great for people who are prospects for the product; for people who aren't it just looks like a messy sales page.

nhangen 16y ago

If PG sent a letter like that, I'd lose a ton of respect for him because he would've jumped the shark.

blhack 16y ago

The key word there is personalized. If a key member of the silicon valley venture capital community sent me a personalized letter about anything, especially to do with startups, or funding, of course I would listen. If Stephen Hawking sent me a personalized letter, I would read it. If Darren Aronofsky sent me a personalized letter, I would read it. If Warren Buffet sent me a personalized letter, I would read it. If Steve Jobs sent me a personalized letter, I would read it. If Barack Obama sent me a personalized letter, I would read it. If George Bush sent me a personalized letter, I would read it. It's also about the context. I'll read mass-produced essays in Foreign Affairs all day long, because they're written by [mostly] authority figures, not copywriters who are trying to make money off of me.