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IMHO this stage of NVC lasts about 6 months, and it is rarely "doing NVC" - ie; if you get really angry/scared/etc you prob haven't built up the muscle memory y

IMHO this stage of NVC lasts about 6 months, and it is rarely "doing NVC" - ie; if you get really angry/scared/etc you prob haven't built up the muscle memory yet to even reach for those canned phrases (probably applies more in more intimate relationships than the workplace - partner(s), parents, kids, etc) but maybe you do, and surprisingly even a clumsy canned phrase about your own feelings or needs rather than jumping to an accusation of the other person can still help ratchet down the tension. After practicing NVC a fair amount (it is a /practice/, not a tool), you can literally start feeling your brain re-wire in a good way. You stop feeling so much responsible for other people's emotions, even if they are about something you did or needing to put your needs in contrast to someone elses, you start automatically being able to empathize with someone's feelings, even when they might scare you, and perhaps most importantly your own self-talk and the way you relate to parts of yourself that "you" are in conflict with starts to change. At this point, there is much less robotic phrases. In fact, watching someone who has many years of experience rewiring their own defenses through NVC practice responding to difficult situations seems near-magical because there are so many less ego defenses to get stuck on someone elses ego defenses so really difficult and hard things can be cut through like better and both people can feel heard and understoor.

0xff00ffee 7y ago
> prob haven't built up the muscle memory yet For me, it took YEARS of practice, and it amazes my that my limbic system is still the first responder! It comes and goes and you're right, you really need to practice. The canned phrases are the training wheels.
- llamataboot 7y ago
  yeah, it takes a while to really appreciate. I read a fair amount of NVC stuff and it always sounded a little bit stupid and wooden (oh, of course I could say that, but why would I even say something that dumb sounding) even though I liked the theories. Like most forms of awareness training, it takes a direct experience through lots of practice as to how your own bodymind is changing. The direct experience of being able to hear someone stating needs and empathizing directly with your commonality in having those needs regardless of how they are acting is a pretty strong one. Even now though when we are having a conflict where both my partner and I feel confused and hurt and we don't quite even understand what we are arguing about but we both feel something pretty intensely we will literally sit down with a typed sheet of feelings of needs and try to identify exactly what is happening for us, regardless of "content" of the fight. It still amazes me, especially as someone socialized to not feel my feelings, how often in those situations I actually have no idea what I'm /feeling/ (other than BAD) much less what I am needing...
- wintermutestwin 7y ago
  > The canned phrases are the training wheels Spot on! I'm going to borrow that analogy and in return I'll give you a solution to the limbic system. From my conflict resolution process document: "Brainstorming is a “brainhack” that engages the analytical brain, which helps to reduce the stress response. This emotion regulation technique “tricks” the brain and body by sending the message that they are safe because you wouldn’t put energy into analytical thought if you were threatened. By engaging the higher reasoning part of the brain, you inhibit the stress response and mitigate the risk it poses to the conflict resolution process."
uk_programmer 7y ago
The very acronym itself redefines violence to something it isn't which is always a red flag. This all sounds like the worst parts of working in a lot of modern offices where people don't speak frankly and instead everything is done through this sort of political office speak which is lets be honest here all about politics and not about solving problems. When I read things like this. I find it very insidious.
- will_pseudonym 7y ago
  Absolutely. Newspeak is an abominable practice, and I can't stand its inevitable progression. Even "Non-Aggressive Communication" would be too "aggressive" of a phrase to describe the framework.
- wintermutestwin 7y ago
  The WHO includes emotional and psychological in the definition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence That said, I do prefer the AKA of "Compassionate Communication"
  - uk_programmer 7y ago
    > The WHO includes emotional and psychological in the definition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence And? They have also redefined violence to mean something else. It doesn't mean they are correct in doing so and in no way does this address my complaint. In the link you posted the very first line: > Violence is "the use of physical force so as to injure, abuse, damage, or destroy." That is the definition and that is what most people think when they hear the term violence. Your link itself says it is a unconventional definition. One that I do not care for. So both the WHO and this acronym as far as I am concerned is redefining violence. > That said, I do prefer the AKA of "Compassionate Communication" Again. This is more newspeak. It just being empathetic. I absolutely abhor people inventing their own terms when there is already suitable word.
  - invalidOrTaken 7y ago
    The WHO can jump in a lake.

0xff00ffee 7y ago

> prob haven't built up the muscle memory yet For me, it took YEARS of practice, and it amazes my that my limbic system is still the first responder! It comes and goes and you're right, you really need to practice. The canned phrases are the training wheels.

llamataboot 7y ago
yeah, it takes a while to really appreciate. I read a fair amount of NVC stuff and it always sounded a little bit stupid and wooden (oh, of course I could say that, but why would I even say something that dumb sounding) even though I liked the theories. Like most forms of awareness training, it takes a direct experience through lots of practice as to how your own bodymind is changing. The direct experience of being able to hear someone stating needs and empathizing directly with your commonality in having those needs regardless of how they are acting is a pretty strong one. Even now though when we are having a conflict where both my partner and I feel confused and hurt and we don't quite even understand what we are arguing about but we both feel something pretty intensely we will literally sit down with a typed sheet of feelings of needs and try to identify exactly what is happening for us, regardless of "content" of the fight. It still amazes me, especially as someone socialized to not feel my feelings, how often in those situations I actually have no idea what I'm /feeling/ (other than BAD) much less what I am needing...
wintermutestwin 7y ago
> The canned phrases are the training wheels Spot on! I'm going to borrow that analogy and in return I'll give you a solution to the limbic system. From my conflict resolution process document: "Brainstorming is a “brainhack” that engages the analytical brain, which helps to reduce the stress response. This emotion regulation technique “tricks” the brain and body by sending the message that they are safe because you wouldn’t put energy into analytical thought if you were threatened. By engaging the higher reasoning part of the brain, you inhibit the stress response and mitigate the risk it poses to the conflict resolution process."

uk_programmer 7y ago

The very acronym itself redefines violence to something it isn't which is always a red flag. This all sounds like the worst parts of working in a lot of modern offices where people don't speak frankly and instead everything is done through this sort of political office speak which is lets be honest here all about politics and not about solving problems. When I read things like this. I find it very insidious.

will_pseudonym 7y ago
Absolutely. Newspeak is an abominable practice, and I can't stand its inevitable progression. Even "Non-Aggressive Communication" would be too "aggressive" of a phrase to describe the framework.
wintermutestwin 7y ago
The WHO includes emotional and psychological in the definition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence That said, I do prefer the AKA of "Compassionate Communication"
- uk_programmer 7y ago
  > The WHO includes emotional and psychological in the definition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence And? They have also redefined violence to mean something else. It doesn't mean they are correct in doing so and in no way does this address my complaint. In the link you posted the very first line: > Violence is "the use of physical force so as to injure, abuse, damage, or destroy." That is the definition and that is what most people think when they hear the term violence. Your link itself says it is a unconventional definition. One that I do not care for. So both the WHO and this acronym as far as I am concerned is redefining violence. > That said, I do prefer the AKA of "Compassionate Communication" Again. This is more newspeak. It just being empathetic. I absolutely abhor people inventing their own terms when there is already suitable word.
- invalidOrTaken 7y ago
  The WHO can jump in a lake.