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For those living in cities that are locked down, what do yall do about daycare? In NYC, my daycare isn't reimbursing fees, so we're continuing to be charged wi

For those living in cities that are locked down, what do yall do about daycare? In NYC, my daycare isn't reimbursing fees, so we're continuing to be charged with a promise of "if insurance pays out, we'll pass it down." With 2 kids, that’s $5,000. Assuming they’re closed for 3 months total, that’s $15,000 down the drain. Now, I get that they're a small business, but their problem is that they can't exactly layoff their daycare workers because the governing body for daycares are pretty strict and getting new employees take a lot of time. On top of that, they have rents due. So, I get it. But this begs a more fundamental question: When are we going to start pressuring insurance companies and rent-seekers to provide relief? Time and time again, all the bailouts of the past seem to benefit them, but during a time when we need insurance companies to pay out for business interruption instead of claiming "act of God, we exclude pandemics...etc.," we fail to bring them into the conversation.

base698 7y ago
At my company the kids have become an addition to our meetings. Babies on laps and toddlers drawing on the whiteboard in the background. It's definitely making changes to productivity and I feel for the new parents.
- rootusrootus 7y ago
  It's one of those moments where I'm glad my kids are past the toddler stage. I'm in 'bad parent' mode right now and letting them have entirely too much screen time and too little direct supervision, but at 7 & 9 they can handle being mostly on their own all day as long as they have something to do. Biggest problem is that they'd not choose schoolwork on their own :) This too shall pass, and they probably won't be too much worse for wear as a result. I tend to think primary school is 80% day care anyway :)
technics256 7y ago
The best situation all around here possibly is the concept of "Kurzarbeit", or short work system, that exists in Germany (Denmark also has a similar one, I believe). It basically allows employers to reduce hours they pay workers, while the gov't helps cover the shortfall to the employee, up to some maximum amount. This prevents companies from having to layoff people, and allows them to pickup the slack and rehire everyone again when things get better.
- texasbigdata 7y ago
  A similar concept is found in the CARE Act related to employers that reduce the hours or wages of employment.
- fock 7y ago
  this doesn't address that in this crisis at the end of all "we need money to pay the bills" problems, there are actual people getting the money on top of their existing pile. If we could identify these individuals, we could essentially just freeze everything in place (rents, industry bonds,...) and the fed only had to print money for the ag/energy/medical sector (and even there we could just use some of the individual savings to pay the bills...). Once it's over, noone will be bankrupt, the Gini coefficient will be lower and the recession will be small. Problem: some individuals will have lost a lot of power.
leetrout 7y ago
Our daycare here in NC has now stopped charging fees and I assume laid off / furloughed some staff because of it. I've not heard of them getting assistance but I've not researched it either. They had not decided to do that out of the gate and we were OK with still paying because my wife and I were still being paid and the employees at the daycare work very hard. I'm sure it's higher in NYC but at ~$750 / month average it's a significant budget item in our house.
- treyfitty 7y ago
  I’m paying $2,500 per month per child (I have 2) in NYC so that’s $5,000 down the drain. And that’s considered cheap.
snarf21 7y ago
We need a different unemployment system than the one we have. We need criteria for unpaid leave but makes you eligible for unemployment benefits. Then when the issue is resolved the employees continue as usual with no laps in work history or anything else. This is also the reason one of the biggest thing we need to do to fix healthcare costs is to detach it from employment (this was the case pre WW2). This would allow people to accrue money in the HSA over time and still be able to pay premiums during an unemployment window.
kevstev 7y ago
I don't understand- they are not providing the service but also not reimbursing fees? That makes zero sense to me- do you pay monthly, and ahead of time?
- npo9 7y ago
  Imagine not paying and losing access to childcare when you need it again.
- treyfitty 7y ago
  Monthly on the first of every month for services to be rendered that month. It makes sense that they charge, but I just don’t like it. Similar to if you don’t use your apartment- your landlord isn’t refunding you for that.
  - kevstev 7y ago
    Right- but if I was unable to enter my home, I would not be paying rent. This isn't a "the service is there, but I am choosing not to use it" situation, unless I am misunderstanding something- this is a "I am legally not allowed to use this service" or another way to look at it- they are legally not allowed to provide this service. I know in nyc, lining up childcare can be a crazy process involving waitlists and such- but I can't imagine paying them in months they are unable to provide service by law.
landryraccoon 7y ago
I’m curious, if the city is locked down why are the kids in daycare and not at home? Are you working as a healthcare provider?
- treyfitty 7y ago
  I never said the kids are in daycare. They are not. I am still being charged for it, however.
newshorts 7y ago
I live in the Bay Area and childcare has been shut down for a few weeks out here as well. It’s taxing but also pretty cool to be able to work and spend time with your kid. I just wish she could interact with people when she sees them outside, she used to pick random strangers and ask for a hug (she’s 1). She’s adapting, but you can tell she’s trying to understand why she can’t run up and play with little kids she sees outside. It’s also hard to know she sees you ignoring her from time to time. I hope this doesn’t negatively impact her long term development.
grecy 7y ago
If you're paying for a service they are not providing, that's extremely clear grounds for a CC charge back, or surely similar in court.
- treyfitty 7y ago
  And then what happens next month? The daycare will either kick us out, or ask to get their money. This isn't a type of "service" that's easy to replace. The waitlists in NYC are often 6+ months.
elliekelly 7y ago
> so we're continuing to be charged with a promise of "if insurance pays out, we'll pass it down." It's very unlikely most business interruption insurance policies would cover a pandemic. I'm sure there are many small businesses who think they've planned for this situation whose insurance claims will be immediately denied.

base698 7y ago

At my company the kids have become an addition to our meetings. Babies on laps and toddlers drawing on the whiteboard in the background. It's definitely making changes to productivity and I feel for the new parents.

rootusrootus 7y ago
It's one of those moments where I'm glad my kids are past the toddler stage. I'm in 'bad parent' mode right now and letting them have entirely too much screen time and too little direct supervision, but at 7 & 9 they can handle being mostly on their own all day as long as they have something to do. Biggest problem is that they'd not choose schoolwork on their own :) This too shall pass, and they probably won't be too much worse for wear as a result. I tend to think primary school is 80% day care anyway :)

technics256 7y ago

The best situation all around here possibly is the concept of "Kurzarbeit", or short work system, that exists in Germany (Denmark also has a similar one, I believe). It basically allows employers to reduce hours they pay workers, while the gov't helps cover the shortfall to the employee, up to some maximum amount. This prevents companies from having to layoff people, and allows them to pickup the slack and rehire everyone again when things get better.

texasbigdata 7y ago
A similar concept is found in the CARE Act related to employers that reduce the hours or wages of employment.
fock 7y ago
this doesn't address that in this crisis at the end of all "we need money to pay the bills" problems, there are actual people getting the money on top of their existing pile. If we could identify these individuals, we could essentially just freeze everything in place (rents, industry bonds,...) and the fed only had to print money for the ag/energy/medical sector (and even there we could just use some of the individual savings to pay the bills...). Once it's over, noone will be bankrupt, the Gini coefficient will be lower and the recession will be small. Problem: some individuals will have lost a lot of power.

leetrout 7y ago

Our daycare here in NC has now stopped charging fees and I assume laid off / furloughed some staff because of it. I've not heard of them getting assistance but I've not researched it either. They had not decided to do that out of the gate and we were OK with still paying because my wife and I were still being paid and the employees at the daycare work very hard. I'm sure it's higher in NYC but at ~$750 / month average it's a significant budget item in our house.

treyfitty 7y ago
I’m paying $2,500 per month per child (I have 2) in NYC so that’s $5,000 down the drain. And that’s considered cheap.

snarf21 7y ago

We need a different unemployment system than the one we have. We need criteria for unpaid leave but makes you eligible for unemployment benefits. Then when the issue is resolved the employees continue as usual with no laps in work history or anything else. This is also the reason one of the biggest thing we need to do to fix healthcare costs is to detach it from employment (this was the case pre WW2). This would allow people to accrue money in the HSA over time and still be able to pay premiums during an unemployment window.

kevstev 7y ago

I don't understand- they are not providing the service but also not reimbursing fees? That makes zero sense to me- do you pay monthly, and ahead of time?

npo9 7y ago
Imagine not paying and losing access to childcare when you need it again.
treyfitty 7y ago
Monthly on the first of every month for services to be rendered that month. It makes sense that they charge, but I just don’t like it. Similar to if you don’t use your apartment- your landlord isn’t refunding you for that.
- kevstev 7y ago
  Right- but if I was unable to enter my home, I would not be paying rent. This isn't a "the service is there, but I am choosing not to use it" situation, unless I am misunderstanding something- this is a "I am legally not allowed to use this service" or another way to look at it- they are legally not allowed to provide this service. I know in nyc, lining up childcare can be a crazy process involving waitlists and such- but I can't imagine paying them in months they are unable to provide service by law.

landryraccoon 7y ago

I’m curious, if the city is locked down why are the kids in daycare and not at home? Are you working as a healthcare provider?

treyfitty 7y ago
I never said the kids are in daycare. They are not. I am still being charged for it, however.

newshorts 7y ago

I live in the Bay Area and childcare has been shut down for a few weeks out here as well. It’s taxing but also pretty cool to be able to work and spend time with your kid. I just wish she could interact with people when she sees them outside, she used to pick random strangers and ask for a hug (she’s 1). She’s adapting, but you can tell she’s trying to understand why she can’t run up and play with little kids she sees outside. It’s also hard to know she sees you ignoring her from time to time. I hope this doesn’t negatively impact her long term development.

grecy 7y ago

If you're paying for a service they are not providing, that's extremely clear grounds for a CC charge back, or surely similar in court.

treyfitty 7y ago
And then what happens next month? The daycare will either kick us out, or ask to get their money. This isn't a type of "service" that's easy to replace. The waitlists in NYC are often 6+ months.

elliekelly 7y ago

> so we're continuing to be charged with a promise of "if insurance pays out, we'll pass it down." It's very unlikely most business interruption insurance policies would cover a pandemic. I'm sure there are many small businesses who think they've planned for this situation whose insurance claims will be immediately denied.