4 ms·

Well I don't understand how situations like toilet use, where many aerosols are created, could be safely recorded. (Don't forget that the virus is in the stool.

Well I don't understand how situations like toilet use, where many aerosols are created, could be safely recorded. (Don't forget that the virus is in the stool.) Also note that this air is often piped somewhere else, hence you would need an airflow analysis.

KarlKemp 7y ago
It doesn’t have to be perfect. If this stops just one in four infections, and masks, washing hands, and distancing each do the same, R0 goes from 2.5 to 0.8 and we win.
- xenonite 7y ago
  I agree that this helps as an _additional_ measure, but certainly not as a replacement. But please see the problems with it!
  - HSO 7y ago
    Nobody is talking about it as a "replacement" (for what anyway). It's viewed as part of the recipe that countries with SARS and/or MERS exposure learned that helped them to handle this situation better than others.
    - xenonite 7y ago
      On the contrary, many see this a possibility to reduce quarantine measures.
      - HSO 7y ago
        Quarantine is an integral part of the Taiwanese/Korean strategy
  - rswail 7y ago
    South Korea managed to control the spread by endless testing and then contact tracing and notification and quarantine. They didn't lock down the cities. They did it and continue to do it without locking down. They are staying flat now because they continue to do that. This is a tool to help that second part of contact tracing. No one is saying it's a replacement for social distancing, but it enables us to relax it if there's a way to stop detected infections spreading.
    - vonmoltke 7y ago
      "Endless testing"? South Korea has done this thus far by testing less than 1% of their population: http://ncov.mohw.go.kr/en/ http://ncov.mohw.go.kr/en/
      - TuringTest 7y ago
        That's because they caught it early, and because they have the factories so they could ramp-up test production very fast to the level required to contain the spread. Those are not universal circumstances.
HSO 7y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22758062 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22758062
- xenonite 7y ago
  well no, you write about surfaces (also called fomite transmission). Aerosols are a totally different topic. Please see the historic, massive outbreak of SARS-CoV-1 in Hong Kong Amoy Gardens. There, the aerosols from stool caused a massive outbreak in the whole building and several neighboring buildings.
  - HSO 7y ago
    Ah yes, you are right, my previous comment is not applicable here. A relevant datapoint here is the case of Webasto in Germany. The woman who infected employees of Webasto and thereby unwittingly created one of the first clusters in Germany was traveling, ate in restaurants etc. Yet the only known infections happened with her colleagues at Webasto, ie those with whom she sat in proximity close and over an extended period. That indicates that infection „requires“ (or is favored) by extended proximity. It may also indicate that infection by aerosols is more „difficult“ and droplets may be more relevant —> masks! I am writing this not to say all-safe but to caution against overexcitement/-anxiety/panic. Caution is good but it seems infection is not as easy or fast as mainstream media are touting atm.

KarlKemp 7y ago

It doesn’t have to be perfect. If this stops just one in four infections, and masks, washing hands, and distancing each do the same, R0 goes from 2.5 to 0.8 and we win.

xenonite 7y ago
I agree that this helps as an _additional_ measure, but certainly not as a replacement. But please see the problems with it!
- HSO 7y ago
  Nobody is talking about it as a "replacement" (for what anyway). It's viewed as part of the recipe that countries with SARS and/or MERS exposure learned that helped them to handle this situation better than others.
  - xenonite 7y ago
    On the contrary, many see this a possibility to reduce quarantine measures.
    - HSO 7y ago
      Quarantine is an integral part of the Taiwanese/Korean strategy
- rswail 7y ago
  South Korea managed to control the spread by endless testing and then contact tracing and notification and quarantine. They didn't lock down the cities. They did it and continue to do it without locking down. They are staying flat now because they continue to do that. This is a tool to help that second part of contact tracing. No one is saying it's a replacement for social distancing, but it enables us to relax it if there's a way to stop detected infections spreading.
  - vonmoltke 7y ago
    "Endless testing"? South Korea has done this thus far by testing less than 1% of their population: http://ncov.mohw.go.kr/en/ http://ncov.mohw.go.kr/en/
    - TuringTest 7y ago
      That's because they caught it early, and because they have the factories so they could ramp-up test production very fast to the level required to contain the spread. Those are not universal circumstances.

HSO 7y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22758062 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22758062

xenonite 7y ago
well no, you write about surfaces (also called fomite transmission). Aerosols are a totally different topic. Please see the historic, massive outbreak of SARS-CoV-1 in Hong Kong Amoy Gardens. There, the aerosols from stool caused a massive outbreak in the whole building and several neighboring buildings.
- HSO 7y ago
  Ah yes, you are right, my previous comment is not applicable here. A relevant datapoint here is the case of Webasto in Germany. The woman who infected employees of Webasto and thereby unwittingly created one of the first clusters in Germany was traveling, ate in restaurants etc. Yet the only known infections happened with her colleagues at Webasto, ie those with whom she sat in proximity close and over an extended period. That indicates that infection „requires“ (or is favored) by extended proximity. It may also indicate that infection by aerosols is more „difficult“ and droplets may be more relevant —> masks! I am writing this not to say all-safe but to caution against overexcitement/-anxiety/panic. Caution is good but it seems infection is not as easy or fast as mainstream media are touting atm.