4 ms·

He says: > These new, mostly consumer use cases have helped us uncover unforeseen issues with our platform. Dedicated journalists and security researchers have

He says: > These new, mostly consumer use cases have helped us uncover unforeseen issues with our platform. Dedicated journalists and security researchers have also helped to identify pre-existing ones. I don't think he is saying that these issues have to do with scaling problems, but rather that the increased usage + new types of usages led to increased scrutiny and uncovered new issues. Which is correct in a way. Obviously, they were told several issues in the past too, but then those issues were not costing them money. Now they are, so they are trying to fix them.

Jedd 7y ago
A year ago they architected their system to not uninstall when you asked it to uninstall, and instead it left a running daemon that would re-install as soon as it saw a relevant URL. This isn't a scaling, usage, or whoops issue. This was intentional.
- shadowgovt 7y ago
  Maybe. I've got enough uninstaller logic wrong in my day to believe it possible that a failure to switch off all your daemons and delete them is just sloppy software engineering on a piece of the system that isn't considered critical path by product managers. After all, users never want to uninstall our software, right? That implies they don't love our product. And of course they love our product. ;) It's not that uninstalling isn't an important feature. It's just that at crunch time, project managers will pull people off polishing the uninstaller to put them on that virtual green-screen feature 10 out of 10 times.
  - frandroid 7y ago
    This was clearly not an accident, but a dark pattern. There are way too many complex dark patterns which have been exposed to excuse them as oopsies. This is a company where product managers overruled developers into creating security-breaking implementations for the sake of "usability".
    - shadowgovt 7y ago
      You just described exactly what I described, only attaching a malicious connotation to it. It doesn't have to be malicious; the fact is that the market simply favors usability. Optimizing for the things users care about over the things they don't is the first PM guideline. This has been demonstrated over and over and over again; have users first, then worry about security and privacy.
      - Jedd 7y ago
        > You just described exactly what I described I don't think parent did. What you originally described (or proposed) what that it may be a simple case of accidentally overlooking a bit of tidying up during uninstall. What I described - the problem that came to light March and then June last year - is that Zoom installed a web server on your Mac whose sole purpose was to silently re-install Zoom if you a) uninstalled zoom, and b) later clicked on a zoom link. There is nothing about it that could be attributed to 'getting uninstaller logic wrong'. Refer: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20407233 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20407233
rtx 7y ago
This is not correct. I have some sympathy for them, maybe this was what was needed to grow with a dev center in China. They might have been pressured by government authorities.

Jedd 7y ago

A year ago they architected their system to not uninstall when you asked it to uninstall, and instead it left a running daemon that would re-install as soon as it saw a relevant URL. This isn't a scaling, usage, or whoops issue. This was intentional.

shadowgovt 7y ago
Maybe. I've got enough uninstaller logic wrong in my day to believe it possible that a failure to switch off all your daemons and delete them is just sloppy software engineering on a piece of the system that isn't considered critical path by product managers. After all, users never want to uninstall our software, right? That implies they don't love our product. And of course they love our product. ;) It's not that uninstalling isn't an important feature. It's just that at crunch time, project managers will pull people off polishing the uninstaller to put them on that virtual green-screen feature 10 out of 10 times.
- frandroid 7y ago
  This was clearly not an accident, but a dark pattern. There are way too many complex dark patterns which have been exposed to excuse them as oopsies. This is a company where product managers overruled developers into creating security-breaking implementations for the sake of "usability".
  - shadowgovt 7y ago
    You just described exactly what I described, only attaching a malicious connotation to it. It doesn't have to be malicious; the fact is that the market simply favors usability. Optimizing for the things users care about over the things they don't is the first PM guideline. This has been demonstrated over and over and over again; have users first, then worry about security and privacy.
    - Jedd 7y ago
      > You just described exactly what I described I don't think parent did. What you originally described (or proposed) what that it may be a simple case of accidentally overlooking a bit of tidying up during uninstall. What I described - the problem that came to light March and then June last year - is that Zoom installed a web server on your Mac whose sole purpose was to silently re-install Zoom if you a) uninstalled zoom, and b) later clicked on a zoom link. There is nothing about it that could be attributed to 'getting uninstaller logic wrong'. Refer: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20407233 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20407233

rtx 7y ago

This is not correct. I have some sympathy for them, maybe this was what was needed to grow with a dev center in China. They might have been pressured by government authorities.