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Anatomy of long sales letter
- DanI-S 16y agoNice article on an unattractive but effective technique. I like how it almost takes the form of a long sales letter itself!
- nhangen 16y agoWritten by a direct response copywriter, so it's going to be a bit biased. I've tested short and long form, and while long form tends to do better for information products, if you are actually providing something of value, then usually a short form can work just as well. Essentially - to sell shit, you need to spend a long time persuading someone to buy it. To sell gold, you just need a buy now button.
- paraschopra 16y agoI think it is wrong to say that long copy writing is a substitute of inferior offer. As Jeremy (in interview) himself emphasizes: long copy cannot sell a poor product. Though I agree best idea is to A/B test long v/s sales copy to see which one clicks with your target customers.
- JeremyReeves 16y agoI don't think it's biased at all. I do agree that long form tends to do better for information products. However, it also does better in 90% of cases, as well. As I mentioned in the post... it does NOT do better in EVERY single case. You're "essentially" comment is absolutely wrong... and TOTALLY biased after you just said my post was biased. It depends on the market maturity, the branding of the company, and MANY other factors. All in all - all I'm saying is this. Long copy works in 80-90% of cases... TYPICALLY. It depends on a lot of factors, and the only way to really know... is to test it with a GOOD copywriter. After all... long copy that sucks will always do worse than short copy which is brilliant :) Jeremy
- nhangen 16y agoThat comment is from my own experience. I've sold a bit of both in my day, and while I don't hate long form copy, I hate pages that look like crap, such as some of those examples. Again, I'm not hating on you, or your piece, but the fact that often times long form copy is associated with horrid design. That's the trend I want to see disappear.
- JeremyReeves 16y agoNo offense taken. I'm actually personally re-doing the order form on the 1 example so it looks more "clean". The design doesn't matter though. "Pretty" doesn't sell. Trust me on that one. What sells is understanding your customer, having a product which gives them exactly what they need at a fair price, and showing that customer how different that product is from other similar products.
- nhangen 16y agoI guess it depends on your customer.
- JeremyReeves 16y agoEXACTLY :)
- alex_c 16y agoI've often tried to figure out how to write good descriptions for iPhone apps, and I've never really found any good resources. App descriptions seem to be all over the place, but some of the elements in long sales letters seem to make their way in (the most visible being social proof in the form of listing good app store rankings or review quotes). Does anyone have insight into this? How well does the long sales letter format translate to the app store?
- tomwalsham 16y agoLong-form copy is really slanted towards selling high-cost products, especially intangibles to less-informed markets. You start with a vision, expect skepticism, bring the viewer round to your idea and then hit them with a pricepoint that by this time is hopefully lower than they've been led to expect. They can then buy with confidence that their money is being well spent. With impulse buys, which is what many apps are, you really don't need the middle level of countering skepticism. You are looking to encapsulate the vision of the app in a short and compelling pitch. Most apps lack the depth to provide the material for long-form copy and you may well lose target market by giving too much and losing attention of the skimmers. Furthermore, consider the negative associations many have with such type of copy, and the correlation of those people with the tech-enabled app-market. Regardless of your opinion of Moeed's use of ShowHN for a non-product here http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2275703 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2275703, his landing page shows about the level of detail I would expect to see in ad-copy for an app. Just try to picture how you would extend that in order to sell the concept further - if you've run out of ideas, you've hit the level you should be at.
- blhack 16y agoThis is what terrifies me so much about being a [mostly] sole-founder. If I saw something like this in my mail, I would immediately throw it away and probably have a few thoughts about how out of touch the person who commissioned it was. But if it really does "convert like crazy", it means that any wisdom I have about marketing (and most of the wisdom given out by fellow geeks, designers, and most marketers) is almost entirely wrong.
- ahi 16y agoI think the long form marketing works on the lower half of the intelligence bell curve. This probably excludes much of a programmer's social circle.
- paraschopra 16y agoYep, if your target customer base includes people who religiously consider such letters as scammy (and I agree most programmers would do so) then it is probably a bad idea to use long sales copy.
- JeremyReeves 16y agoPerfectly said Paras. It's all about knowing your market, giving them something they're familiar with, and then BEING INTERESTING :)
- kenjackson 16y agoI think its probably more effective on the "lower half", but I think the reason why most programmer's are less affected is familiarity. We've seen them a million times and know that the pattern of long form is usually spam. But think back to the first time you saw something like the four page ad in Byte magazine as a kid. There's a decent chance that you went to your dad and said, "Dad, this is cool. Can we get this computer kit? I can learn how to build and program computers for only $899!"
- ericb 16y agoI don't think people on the lower part of the intelligence are necessarily big readers. With most psychological effects, there's the tendency to say "sure, that works on other people, but not me." The long form sales letter is really a way to put all of the positive attributes and angles for a product in front of a consumer. If you are selling snow to eskimos, I doubt it works. But for people who are on the fence, what is so wrong with laying out the case for a product fully? I think you could argue that someone who needs to see compelling supporting arguments in favor of a product, and who carefully considers a product before purchasing is more likely to be intelligent. If anything, the long sales letter is less threatening to the notion of the intelligent consumer than the sad realization that changing the hue of a button increased your sales.
- jamesgeck0 16y ago> The best thing a person can do is turn skimmers, into jumpers… and jumpers… into book worms. That’s why it’s important to have fun, exciting, engaging copy. As a book worm, I can't stand long sales letters. Bold, flashy highlights and random formatting all over the place interrupts the flow of the text and is hard to read. The copy would have to be pretty darn engaging to make me put up with that.
- kiubo 16y agoThe article seems to generalize quite a bit. The effectiveness of a letter like this I imagine would depend quite a bit on who the target is.
- JeremyReeves 16y agoThanks for the comment. Yea it's hard not to generalize since it's only 1 article, ya know? I tried being as specific as possible without turning it into a 30 page article :) And yes, you're absolutely right... and hit on something most people don't understand. It all depends on the target market! ;)
- Hates_ 16y agoMy concern with the long sales letter approach is how relevant it is to web apps. Mail order books, courses I can see the benefit, but with a web app, why write lots of spiel about a product someone can start using straight away with a trial account. I am at constant battle with my business partner over this as personally I don't believe it is the right way to create a conversion with web apps (How many successful webapps can you name that take the long sales letter approach?), where as he takes a more traditional info-marketing approach based around selling courses/books/seminars and wants to apply those techniques to our startup. How does a long sales letter form compare to an approach of "Get the user using the product as quickly as possible", with a few bold benefits outlined, a huge "Try Now" button and not commitment to buy. Of course this is something that I should A/B test myself to really find the answer.
- paraschopra 16y agoLong copy v/s short "Try Now" approach for webapps would certainly be a an interesting A/B test. (PS: we have been trying to do such a split test for Visual Website Optimizer homepage. Will post results once we do it)
- netaustin 16y agoI suspect that a "try now" button would be the death of most products traditionally advertised by a long sales letter.
- tluyben2 16y agoDesigners are not the only ones who 'hate' these kind of letters; most people I know would hit back immediately without checking out the page when encountering 'the deck'. But they do work though; I've tried them and people (whom I don't know?) seem to click & buy.
- JeremyReeves 16y agoYep, exactly. It all depends on what gives you the highest conversions. It's really as simple as that.
- netaustin 16y agoThe long sales letter is the Internet beachhead of the pitch man. Maybe these kinds of sales letters work for some products. But Jeremy knows that he's signaling on Billy Mays (he says so himself), and that people who wouldn't ever buy from an infomercial wouldn't buy from a page like this. I cannot fathom the unhappy circumstances that would have me check "YES! I'd love to work with a copywriter who can make my life EASY and profitable instead of stressful and broke!" box.
- paraschopra 16y agoThe copy he writes wouldn't work on you but that's the #1 rule of marketing: don't project yourself on target customer. If you don't like long copy, it doesn't mean your customers won't like it. That's why stress is on A/B testing.
- bmr 16y agoWe laugh at people "on the lower half of the bell curve" who use the "length equals strength" heuristic to evaluate long-form letters, but the same thing happens in these comments all the time.
- GBond 16y agoRelated to this is the "Underachiever Method" and the previously discussed thread on the "400k/yr Parrot eBook guy" http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=516215 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=516215 The long form is particular popular with this market targeting method because "ugliness" doesn't matter especially if you position the product as a ultra-niche subject matter authority. I'm surprised to see that the article doesn't mention that the long form also benefits from SEO juice (more word, better chance of google rewarding keyword context relevance).
- feverishaaron 16y agoIt's interesting how people divide themselves into two separate camps when it comes to landing page/direct marketing (which are brothers of the same mother). The fact is, both longform and shortform work. But why they work and which context depends on the type of product you are offering and your sales model. Long form works best for: * Simple to understand products which have difficult to achieve benefits (weight loss pills, real estate riches courses). The idea is that once you find an interested party, it is just a matter of convincing him that YOUR SOLUTION is THE SOLUTION. * The purchase process is single stepped with low time and mental effort involved on the part of the purchaser. (e-download, shipped product). * It is really hard to sell services with the long form, although its been done. I'd still like to see a good example of a successful longform that sells a service, and analyse it to death. Short form works best for: * Complex sales where a conversion means pre-qualification, a phone call, question answering, a customized result (think general contractor), identity check or some other gate to completing the sale. The idea is just to give them just enough benefits that they feel both enticed and think it is low risk to give you their contact information. Almost all B2B sales fit in this category. * Monthly services with a freemium model, and any other low risk opportunity to kick the tires. * Items with a low purchase point and low effort checkout (App Store game). That said, there are always exceptions to the rule, and you should test both forms of communication if you are unsure.
- JeremyReeves 16y agoFANTASTIC comment! :) Believe it or not, I DON'T only do long-form salesletters so I don't divide myself into a "long-form-only" camp. Typically what I do is figure out what the client needs... assess the market/product,etc... and do 1 or the other to START. However, if I'm not absolutely positive that whatever form I'm using will work - I always recommend that the client test a longer copy page versus a shorter copy page. All in all... it's not "long form vs. short form". The bottom line is... you put out all your selling points, and defuse all the objectives. At that point it can be either long or short. And you end it right there without any "extra" words :) That could be 300 words... or 10,000 words. Like you said - it depends on a TON of variables!
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- wmboy 16y agoIt seems the long sales letter is slowly being replaced by video sales letters. Personally I think video sales letters would be more effective but they also have the inherent problem that people viewing the page at work (or other similar situation) won't be able to see the video (unless they bookmark it and view it later which is unlikely). I think combining a mixture of the short sales letter, video sales letter and long sales letter would be a good catch all. Show a clear call to action Buy Now button above the fold with a few simple bullet-point benefits and a sales video. Then below that you can continue on with the long sales letter for those who still have pre-sales questions.
- JeremyReeves 16y agoThey're not being "replaced"... but video letters typically do help conversions. And yes, great ideas about mixing it up. That's the KEY to all of this. You don't know exactly what will work best - the answer lies in testing it out! :)
- macournoyer 16y agoFWIW, I A/B tested a "long" sales letter with a cleaner, shorter and nicer looking one (imo) for my info product targeted at programmers. Long: http://createyourproglang.com/index2.html http://createyourproglang.com/index2.html Short: http://createyourproglang.com/ http://createyourproglang.com/ I've let the experiment run for a few months and the results were never concluding, ~50% each the whole time. My guess is that most of my buyers are pre-sold by affiliates, or via word of mouth, and don't read anything. Any other interpretation greatly appreciated.
- JeremyReeves 16y ago1 thing I noticed is that the longer version is REALLY cramped and a lot harder to read than the short version. I'd suggest making a lot more white space in the longer version for easier reading. The shorter version also has a headline, the longer kind of does but it's not noticeable. Keep running tests - you'll find a winner! :)