5 ms·

Get a ham license and they become legal.

by wbl 7y ago

m463 7y ago
can you do encrypted communications with a ham license? (does spread spectrum qualify?)
- freeqaz 7y ago
  Unfortunately, you can't. It's silly[0]. [0]: https://www.amateurradio.com/encryption-is-already-legal-its-the-intention-thats-not/ https://www.amateurradio.com/encryption-is-already-legal-its...
  - tlrobinson 7y ago
    Your link isn't arguing that encryption being prohibited is silly, it's arguing that proprietary protocols like D-STAR are effectively "intended to obscure the meaning of the communication" (for profit rather than secrecy) and shouldn't be allowed.
    - paulgerhardt 7y ago
      My understanding was under one interpretation encryption was always permitted by the FCC on ham bands over 50mhz but by a 2:1 majority common wisdom within the community (and the ARRL itself) hadn't come around to this line or reasoning[1]. Specifically encryption is not allowed if it's "for obscuring meaning except for the following circumstances" of which authentication and securing network operations are two. I would want some legal precedent or an amendment to the code before weighing on this too heavily to see which of the two interpretations takes priority. That article isn't the final word but it's interesting following the work of the broadband-hamnet folks - particularly in Texas[2]. They mostly say one can't use encrypted traffic. They are however relaying IP traffic but imply one shouldn't use https. During National Emergencies (like now?) a lot of the rules around call signs, power, and presumably encryption fall by the wayside. In practice it looks like the FCC grants per disaster waivers[3]. [1] https://www.qsl.net/kb9mwr/projects/wireless/Data%20Encryption%20is%20Legal.pdf https://www.qsl.net/kb9mwr/projects/wireless/Data%20Encrypti... - the lede is buried on page 3 [2] https://hotarc.org/mesh/ https://hotarc.org/mesh/ [3] http://www.arrl.org/news/fcc-grants-temporary-waiver-permitting-use-of-pactor-4-for-hurricane-response-and-relief http://www.arrl.org/news/fcc-grants-temporary-waiver-permitt...
- segfaultbuserr 7y ago
  > can you do encrypted communications with a ham license? No. It's prohibited internationally and enforced by all ITU member states, the only exception which encryption is acceptable is the control uplink to aircraft and spacecraft. Although in some countries, using encryption domestically, purely for access control (not for confidentiality) is acceptable under some circumstances, if you publish your key. > does spread spectrum qualify? No. There are additional rules governing spread spectrum communications, but it doesn't automatically imply encryption. Many spread spectrum systems use weak PRNG and not meant for encryption.
  - Causality1 7y ago
    So what's the motivation for disallowing encryption on ham channels?
    - Danieru 7y ago
      No doubt to prevent abuse and allow identification of violators. Encryption would open the bands to general commercial usage. My uncle works in Canada's spectrum enforcement. You would be surprised at how many small business attempt to violate band licenses to save a few bucks. Think taxi or logging services with commms on protected bands.
      - Causality1 7y ago
        ... But if they're violating the rules in some other way why wouldn't they also encrypt?
        tlrobinson 7y ago
        You have it backwards. They can't violate the rules now because it would be obvious. If encryption were allowed it would be impossible to know if a transmission is violating certain rules or not.
        Causality1 7y ago

Get a ham license and they become legal.

by wbl 7y ago

Get a ham license and they become legal.

m463 7y ago

can you do encrypted communications with a ham license? (does spread spectrum qualify?)

freeqaz 7y ago
Unfortunately, you can't. It's silly[0]. [0]: https://www.amateurradio.com/encryption-is-already-legal-its-the-intention-thats-not/ https://www.amateurradio.com/encryption-is-already-legal-its...
- tlrobinson 7y ago
  Your link isn't arguing that encryption being prohibited is silly, it's arguing that proprietary protocols like D-STAR are effectively "intended to obscure the meaning of the communication" (for profit rather than secrecy) and shouldn't be allowed.
  - paulgerhardt 7y ago
    My understanding was under one interpretation encryption was always permitted by the FCC on ham bands over 50mhz but by a 2:1 majority common wisdom within the community (and the ARRL itself) hadn't come around to this line or reasoning[1]. Specifically encryption is not allowed if it's "for obscuring meaning except for the following circumstances" of which authentication and securing network operations are two. I would want some legal precedent or an amendment to the code before weighing on this too heavily to see which of the two interpretations takes priority. That article isn't the final word but it's interesting following the work of the broadband-hamnet folks - particularly in Texas[2]. They mostly say one can't use encrypted traffic. They are however relaying IP traffic but imply one shouldn't use https. During National Emergencies (like now?) a lot of the rules around call signs, power, and presumably encryption fall by the wayside. In practice it looks like the FCC grants per disaster waivers[3]. [1] https://www.qsl.net/kb9mwr/projects/wireless/Data%20Encryption%20is%20Legal.pdf https://www.qsl.net/kb9mwr/projects/wireless/Data%20Encrypti... - the lede is buried on page 3 [2] https://hotarc.org/mesh/ https://hotarc.org/mesh/ [3] http://www.arrl.org/news/fcc-grants-temporary-waiver-permitting-use-of-pactor-4-for-hurricane-response-and-relief http://www.arrl.org/news/fcc-grants-temporary-waiver-permitt...
segfaultbuserr 7y ago
> can you do encrypted communications with a ham license? No. It's prohibited internationally and enforced by all ITU member states, the only exception which encryption is acceptable is the control uplink to aircraft and spacecraft. Although in some countries, using encryption domestically, purely for access control (not for confidentiality) is acceptable under some circumstances, if you publish your key. > does spread spectrum qualify? No. There are additional rules governing spread spectrum communications, but it doesn't automatically imply encryption. Many spread spectrum systems use weak PRNG and not meant for encryption.
- Causality1 7y ago
  So what's the motivation for disallowing encryption on ham channels?
  - Danieru 7y ago
    No doubt to prevent abuse and allow identification of violators. Encryption would open the bands to general commercial usage. My uncle works in Canada's spectrum enforcement. You would be surprised at how many small business attempt to violate band licenses to save a few bucks. Think taxi or logging services with commms on protected bands.
    - Causality1 7y ago
      ... But if they're violating the rules in some other way why wouldn't they also encrypt?
      - tlrobinson 7y ago
        You have it backwards. They can't violate the rules now because it would be obvious. If encryption were allowed it would be impossible to know if a transmission is violating certain rules or not.
        Causality1 7y ago