4 ms·

Reliability goes a long way and Zoom is very reliable, especially considering the recent spike of users. I value privacy, but I think the jury is still out on

Reliability goes a long way and Zoom is very reliable, especially considering the recent spike of users. I value privacy, but I think the jury is still out on this company. They need time to react to the public scolding they're enduring as of late. Hopefully things change for the better and they take security more seriously after this. EDIT: A word

thehappypm 7y ago
Seriously. They made a great product that just works in a space where most competitors (BlueJeans, Google Hangouts, Skype, FaceTime) just have crazy drawbacks. Give them a chance to make things right ffs.
- gowld 7y ago
  Didn't they have a chance, and intentionally made things wrong, repeatedly, for years?
- sneak 7y ago
  This would be a legitimate argument if their pervasive shadiness and deployment of dark patterns were an accident, or an error. It's not. They have already done things "right" in their view, and it is reflected consistently in their actions. If they make any corrections now, it will be on a PR basis in response to perceived customer upset, not because they are sorry or wish to respect users or privacy. They've been actively and plainly lying throughout this thing. You can't even use Zoom without agreeing (via their abusive TOS) give up your civil rights.
  - gjs278 7y ago
    nobody fucking cares
hodgesrm 7y ago
I'm optimistic. Overall they got basic technology and market fit right in a very competitive market. They have had security issues but don't seem anywhere near the worst offender. That honor probably goes to Windows OS releases of yore. The security problems seem fixable if they put their minds to it. Other companies have messed this up but later regained trust.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  > of yore It isn't 2005 anymore; which is about when their approach to security would fit in.
dntbnmpls 7y ago
> Reliability goes a long way and Zoom is very reliable, especially considering the recent spike of users. Sad but true. Also, most of the tech industry knows this. That's why they ( especially startups ) forgo security for growth. Perversely, one of the signs you've succeeded as a startup is people complain about security. It means that your product has grown so much that it reached those who are concerned about security. It means your product is no longer for hobbyists but a tool for serious business/government/etc use.
dig1 7y ago
Had a meeting tonight with over 50 participants. Screen sharing. Not a single hitch or problem. In the past tried multiple times with Hangouts (dies after you get more than 4 on board), jitsi meet (not good with bad connections), Slack (good luck with video), Hipchat (video doesn't work for more than 3 participants) and Skype (connection drops). On one of my previous gigs, we ditched everything and took Mumble + google docs for showcase. Before Zoom, Skype was good enough, until they messed it up. My presumption is that all of these tools are developed in perfect environment: ideal network, minimal latency, close peers, single OS. As soon as you start to drift from those presumptions, complete breakdown happens.
- bob33212 7y ago
  In the real world you cannot have everything. Fast, cheap, reliable, scalable, secure, easy to use, os agnostic. Pick several or be disappointed about the theoretical perfect company that should exist and provide all.
  - theamk 7y ago
    Zoom is pretty much it, isn't it? (unless you require cheap == free) It did have some security issues, but they patched them eventually. It is not resistant to government/owner monitoring (and this is a separate thing from "secure"), but even if they did add true E2E, they'd still be a proprietary software often running on proprietary OS.
  - lordlimecat 7y ago
    We're not talking about secure, we're talking about "not insing unsecured REST APIs on client machines that can't be removed". Zoom isn't on the secure radar at all. They're fighting to not actively compromise your computers security.
- nilkn 7y ago
  BlueJeans works fine with 100+ participants in my experience.
- mullingitover 7y ago
tonyztan 7y ago
Google Meet seems to work pretty well if you have G Suite: https://gsuite.google.com/products/meet/ https://gsuite.google.com/products/meet/
- goalieca 7y ago
  Meet is garbage. Video drops a lot and you can’t even tile anything on their apps.
  - thsowers 7y ago
    I use meet for multiple hours a day, haven't ever had issues with the video dropping, but the tiling thing really does bother me for any meetings that aren't 1:1s. It's crazy when I am in a meeting with 50+ people and can only see the faces of a few. I don't know why they can't fix this.
  - e40 7y ago
    I had a call with Google themselves. There were 3-4 on each side. Not only was the UI so confusing that everyone kept making mistakes, the quality was terrible. Quality aside, I was just blown away by how terrible the UI design was, especially after using Zoom for months. I, too, want to give Zoom time to respond to this shitstorm of issues. Hopefully it will be like the FB SDK, and they'll handle it.
  - goodcjw2 7y ago
    As a Googler who has no other options other than Meet, I have to sadly agree with this statement.
Sophistifunk 7y ago
This isn't new, though. They've been steadily pushing different malware strategies (with bugs) for months and months.

thehappypm 7y ago

Seriously. They made a great product that just works in a space where most competitors (BlueJeans, Google Hangouts, Skype, FaceTime) just have crazy drawbacks. Give them a chance to make things right ffs.

gowld 7y ago
Didn't they have a chance, and intentionally made things wrong, repeatedly, for years?
sneak 7y ago
This would be a legitimate argument if their pervasive shadiness and deployment of dark patterns were an accident, or an error. It's not. They have already done things "right" in their view, and it is reflected consistently in their actions. If they make any corrections now, it will be on a PR basis in response to perceived customer upset, not because they are sorry or wish to respect users or privacy. They've been actively and plainly lying throughout this thing. You can't even use Zoom without agreeing (via their abusive TOS) give up your civil rights.
- gjs278 7y ago
  nobody fucking cares

hodgesrm 7y ago

I'm optimistic. Overall they got basic technology and market fit right in a very competitive market. They have had security issues but don't seem anywhere near the worst offender. That honor probably goes to Windows OS releases of yore. The security problems seem fixable if they put their minds to it. Other companies have messed this up but later regained trust.

saagarjha 7y ago
> of yore It isn't 2005 anymore; which is about when their approach to security would fit in.

dntbnmpls 7y ago

> Reliability goes a long way and Zoom is very reliable, especially considering the recent spike of users. Sad but true. Also, most of the tech industry knows this. That's why they ( especially startups ) forgo security for growth. Perversely, one of the signs you've succeeded as a startup is people complain about security. It means that your product has grown so much that it reached those who are concerned about security. It means your product is no longer for hobbyists but a tool for serious business/government/etc use.

dig1 7y ago

Had a meeting tonight with over 50 participants. Screen sharing. Not a single hitch or problem. In the past tried multiple times with Hangouts (dies after you get more than 4 on board), jitsi meet (not good with bad connections), Slack (good luck with video), Hipchat (video doesn't work for more than 3 participants) and Skype (connection drops). On one of my previous gigs, we ditched everything and took Mumble + google docs for showcase. Before Zoom, Skype was good enough, until they messed it up. My presumption is that all of these tools are developed in perfect environment: ideal network, minimal latency, close peers, single OS. As soon as you start to drift from those presumptions, complete breakdown happens.

bob33212 7y ago
In the real world you cannot have everything. Fast, cheap, reliable, scalable, secure, easy to use, os agnostic. Pick several or be disappointed about the theoretical perfect company that should exist and provide all.
- theamk 7y ago
  Zoom is pretty much it, isn't it? (unless you require cheap == free) It did have some security issues, but they patched them eventually. It is not resistant to government/owner monitoring (and this is a separate thing from "secure"), but even if they did add true E2E, they'd still be a proprietary software often running on proprietary OS.
- lordlimecat 7y ago
  We're not talking about secure, we're talking about "not insing unsecured REST APIs on client machines that can't be removed". Zoom isn't on the secure radar at all. They're fighting to not actively compromise your computers security.
nilkn 7y ago
BlueJeans works fine with 100+ participants in my experience.
mullingitover 7y ago

tonyztan 7y ago

Google Meet seems to work pretty well if you have G Suite: https://gsuite.google.com/products/meet/ https://gsuite.google.com/products/meet/

goalieca 7y ago
Meet is garbage. Video drops a lot and you can’t even tile anything on their apps.
- thsowers 7y ago
  I use meet for multiple hours a day, haven't ever had issues with the video dropping, but the tiling thing really does bother me for any meetings that aren't 1:1s. It's crazy when I am in a meeting with 50+ people and can only see the faces of a few. I don't know why they can't fix this.
- e40 7y ago
  I had a call with Google themselves. There were 3-4 on each side. Not only was the UI so confusing that everyone kept making mistakes, the quality was terrible. Quality aside, I was just blown away by how terrible the UI design was, especially after using Zoom for months. I, too, want to give Zoom time to respond to this shitstorm of issues. Hopefully it will be like the FB SDK, and they'll handle it.
- goodcjw2 7y ago
  As a Googler who has no other options other than Meet, I have to sadly agree with this statement.

Sophistifunk 7y ago

This isn't new, though. They've been steadily pushing different malware strategies (with bugs) for months and months.