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This was on topic because the GP was talking about the fall of Venezuela. I expanded on WHY Venezuela fell, because it is tragic. I had a lot of genuinely new

This was on topic because the GP was talking about the fall of Venezuela. I expanded on WHY Venezuela fell, because it is tragic. I had a lot of genuinely new things to say that I'm sure some people didn't know. It's impossible to keep politics out of the news... I see political debates here all the time. I didn't pull this out of my ass to bait people, I genuinely wanted everyone to know why Venezuela is in the situation it's in. If I would have commented in the root thread I could see your point, but I was replying to the GP's topic. I'm actually glad I did because some people thought Sweden and Norway are socialist countries...

jodrellblank 7y ago
I couldn't reply to your higher level comment because I flagged it; "Socialism strikes again. Let's add the death toll to the millions it has killed before." is a total flamewar bait / political ideology topic. I can tell because I was baited into replying before I noticed what I was doing and flagged it instead. quips like "But yeah, maybe it hasn't been implemented properly yet /s" are bait. "I see political debates here all the time." - then flag them, they are against the comment guidelines?
- s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
  If I could remove the quip I would, but I only said it because I feel passionate about the issue. I sincerely was not trying to bait anyone.
  - dang 7y ago
    I'm sure you weren't, but it was flamebait because it was predictable that the comment would blow up into a flamewar. The issue is the expected value of the subthread, i.e. the sum of the probability distribution of responses. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20%22expected%20value%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
  - jodrellblank 7y ago
    It's possible for 20 serial killers to call themselves Christian, and still "not be following Christ correctly", and pointing that out over and over isn't supporting serial killing, and it shouldn't be the serial killers who get to define what "Christian" means. Analogously, "the struggle of the proletariat isn't "the proletariat want themselves put in mass graves" no matter how many times mass murderers put the the proletariat in mass graves saying "but it's what they wanted!". That a central planning economy can be badly and inhumanely run is not, in itself, proof that one cannnot be run well run. It might be the case that it can't, even that it's irresponsible to try; but what you're doing is pointing to mass graves as a kind of emotional reasoning "that is a lot of suffering so don't you dare argue, I win" shutdown tactic. Marx was not famous for saying "The proletariat are looking a bit porky these days, let's get a dictatorship going, kill all the farmers, starve the proles to death and call it utopia" When Britain directed India's wheat production to Britain and starved 7 million people, or Churchill diverted Bangladesh's crop production to Greece and 4 million Bangladeshis starved, or Britain bought granaries in Iran (Persia) in the early 1900s and 2 million starved, those weren't local people determining their food supply distribution in a free market; you said in another comment that your definition of Socalism was "the only real definiton, when the government controls the market and no capitalism exists"; by your definition were these micro-instances of Communism? You're arguing a strawman, and you have a one-word panacea answer: Capitalism. A one-word explanaton which covers many countries over many decades with many problems and many atrocities, one thing to blame for all ills and a one-word answer for everything good. That is unlikely to be the best possible understanding.
dang 7y ago
Yes, it's impossible to keep politics out of the topics that get discussed here, but it's eminently possible not to go full generic and to stay out of battle mode. It mostly just requires an intention to follow the rules here. Please follow the rules here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html I've written about how this site handles political overlap here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21607844 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21607844, and there's lots more explanation at https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que. If, after taking a look at those links, anyone has a question we haven't addressed, I'd be interested to hear it and happy to answer.

jodrellblank 7y ago

I couldn't reply to your higher level comment because I flagged it; "Socialism strikes again. Let's add the death toll to the millions it has killed before." is a total flamewar bait / political ideology topic. I can tell because I was baited into replying before I noticed what I was doing and flagged it instead. quips like "But yeah, maybe it hasn't been implemented properly yet /s" are bait. "I see political debates here all the time." - then flag them, they are against the comment guidelines?

s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
If I could remove the quip I would, but I only said it because I feel passionate about the issue. I sincerely was not trying to bait anyone.
- dang 7y ago
  I'm sure you weren't, but it was flamebait because it was predictable that the comment would blow up into a flamewar. The issue is the expected value of the subthread, i.e. the sum of the probability distribution of responses. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20%22expected%20value%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
- jodrellblank 7y ago
  It's possible for 20 serial killers to call themselves Christian, and still "not be following Christ correctly", and pointing that out over and over isn't supporting serial killing, and it shouldn't be the serial killers who get to define what "Christian" means. Analogously, "the struggle of the proletariat isn't "the proletariat want themselves put in mass graves" no matter how many times mass murderers put the the proletariat in mass graves saying "but it's what they wanted!". That a central planning economy can be badly and inhumanely run is not, in itself, proof that one cannnot be run well run. It might be the case that it can't, even that it's irresponsible to try; but what you're doing is pointing to mass graves as a kind of emotional reasoning "that is a lot of suffering so don't you dare argue, I win" shutdown tactic. Marx was not famous for saying "The proletariat are looking a bit porky these days, let's get a dictatorship going, kill all the farmers, starve the proles to death and call it utopia" When Britain directed India's wheat production to Britain and starved 7 million people, or Churchill diverted Bangladesh's crop production to Greece and 4 million Bangladeshis starved, or Britain bought granaries in Iran (Persia) in the early 1900s and 2 million starved, those weren't local people determining their food supply distribution in a free market; you said in another comment that your definition of Socalism was "the only real definiton, when the government controls the market and no capitalism exists"; by your definition were these micro-instances of Communism? You're arguing a strawman, and you have a one-word panacea answer: Capitalism. A one-word explanaton which covers many countries over many decades with many problems and many atrocities, one thing to blame for all ills and a one-word answer for everything good. That is unlikely to be the best possible understanding.

dang 7y ago

Yes, it's impossible to keep politics out of the topics that get discussed here, but it's eminently possible not to go full generic and to stay out of battle mode. It mostly just requires an intention to follow the rules here. Please follow the rules here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html I've written about how this site handles political overlap here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21607844 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21607844, and there's lots more explanation at https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que. If, after taking a look at those links, anyone has a question we haven't addressed, I'd be interested to hear it and happy to answer.