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I understand the need to preserve masks and respirators for medical personnel, but did the talking point earlier really need to be they provide no benefit? It f

• throwaway5752 7y ago
  The reality is most people would not correctly fit a n95, and an improperly fit n95 would only provide marginal benefit. Even in article, we are talking cloth face masks. That will provide even less marginal protection to the wearer from contracting the virus. But it will reduce the spread from an infected person. The goal isn't to wear a mask to protect yourself, the goal is to not spread the virus as an asymptomatic carrier It's not fruitful to worry about a hypothetical. I worry more about asking many Americans to do something they perceive as altruistic. edit: it is rude to call something FUD if it isn't. I didn't say no benefit, I said marginal. And I think everyone greater risk in a general healthcare systemic collapse, which is what is on the table. If you weigh all the risks, until there are enough for all medical purposes they should go to medical wearers. Then it should be triaged by vulnerability. This seems really common sense. And obviously, a homemade cloth mask, scarf, or t-shirt when forced into a situation around other people is basic common sense, and I didn't feel the need to say it. That's why I'm talking about N95s, not masks, and certainly not cloth masks that are homemade. edit: downvotes are frustrating. I am almost restating the article verbatim to correct misunderstandings in the comments here about what and why is being suggested. However, on Wednesday, Dr Adams told Good Morning America that the CDC had been asked to review its guidelines on masks, because "we've learned there's a fair amount of asymptomatic spread" - although he stressed that medical masks should still be left to health care professionals who needed them most. and However, more and more health experts now say there are benefits. They argue that the public use of masks can primarily help by preventing asymptomatic patients - people who have been infected with Covid-19 but are not aware, and not displaying any symptoms - from unknowingly spreading the virus to others. edit: check out https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22752501 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22752501 for resources that say indicate otherwise on mask wearing even benefiting the wearer. Don't be an antisocial asshole and buy or wear N95s and give them to healthcare workers, who face a much higher viral loads than you, until supply constraints are resolved.
  • doggodad 7y ago
    That's an parroting FUD to arrogantly and dismissively rationalize removing means of protection from individuals. There are people who can fit them properly. Use or misuse is a personal responsibility, like most things in life.
    • RunningDroid 7y ago
      >There are people who can fit them properly. In my experience (as a peon employed by target) about 10% of people are wearing the correct mask (assuming they're trying to protect themselves) and appear to have it fitted properly. (CVS pharmacy people aren't included in that number because they probably received training on how to wear their masks.)
  • JoeAltmaier 7y ago
    A study of airplane travelers showed benefits from wearing a facemask, even for the wearer. A couple days ago here on HN? Here's the paper: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HLrm0pqBN_5bdyysOeoOBX4pt4oFDBhsC_jpblXpNtQ/preview https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HLrm0pqBN_5bdyysOeoOBX4p... Protection achieved by wearing facemasks of any kind was between 90% and 100%.
    • throwaway5752 7y ago
      Edit your post with the link, if you can? I would love to read it. I will correct my comment accordingly.
  • joshstrange 7y ago
    > The reality is most people would not correctly fit a n95, and an improperly fit n95 would only provide marginal benefit. Marginal > none > Even in article, we are talking cloth face masks. That will provide even less marginal protection to the wearer from contracting the virus. But it will reduce the spread of an infected person. The goal isn't to wear a mask to protect yourself, the goal is to not spread the virus as an asymptomatic carrier Not true, getting a lower dose of the virus initially gives your body more time to develop antibodies.
• gameswithgo 7y ago
  tragic and idiotic decision to lie.
  • xiphias2 7y ago
    Tragic, yes. But idiotic would be trivializing that US is in cold war with China. Attacking the country while building down national defense (CDC) was idiotic.
• applecrazy 7y ago
  Agreed. It's kind of fascinating that they said masks had "no benefit" but claimed that medical professionals had a dire need for masks. Speculation here, but I think if everyone had worn face coverings (i.e. scarves or even masks) early on, we wouldn't have as many cases in the US today. Combined with social distancing, we could have even possibly flattened the curve. edits: grammar
  • chiefalchemist 7y ago
    Can you supply a link that substantiates that? Other than Communist China making that claim? Please keep in mind CC would love to see the current admin discredited. It's naive to believe that everyone has put down their propaganda weapons. Not going to happen.
    • applecrazy 7y ago
      I specified above that this is personal speculation. And no, I'm not a CCP shill, I'm a US college student who would very much like to get the full experience I paid for.
    • deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    • IvyMike 7y ago
      Pro-mask evidence links: https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/frkfit/stealth_transmission_of_covid19_demands/flxla9v/ https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/frkfit/stealth_tra...
    • im3w1l 7y ago
      I'm not sure exactly what you are asking for a source on. That people have claimed masks don't help? The idea appears to be widespread so I assume it must have been said multiple times. Here is a famous one https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/1233725785283932160 https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/12337257852839321...
    • franciskim 7y ago
• chiefalchemist 7y ago
  Not at all. Just got back from two different local supermarkets. I didn't wear a mask. I was easily in the minority. If the CDC said to drink your own pee, the majority of ppl wouldn't hesitate.
  • doggodad 7y ago
    Treating the populace like the Radium Girls who were told it was "safe" and ended-up painting their nails, skin and teeth with a deadly substance and dying horrible deaths from it.
• loup-vaillant 7y ago
  My understanding that you need N95 mask to protect yourself. To protect others from you however, you probably just need to make sure you don't spit, and don't touch your face. A cloth mask could help with both. Gloves may also help (having something on your hand can remind you not to touch your face). Doctors & other exposed personnel need masks to protect themselves. The rest of us likely mostly need to protect them from us. (Totally not a doctor, citation needed.)
  • joecot 7y ago
    If by spit you mean sneeze or cough, then yes. If you're potentially contagious, wearing a mask helps prevent you from spraying liquid droplets in the air and infecting others. It's not perfect, but it's something. And any since any of us could be a carrier currently and there's no sufficient tests to find out, the best things we could do in order are 1) stay home and quarantine, 2) wear masks and sanitize our hands whenever we go out. Both for the sake of not catching it, and for the sake of not spreading it.
    • loup-vaillant 7y ago
      > If by spit you mean sneeze or cough, And talking. We sometimes throw droplets with percussives such as P or T.
  • yibg 7y ago
    That’s my understanding as well, but that to me also means we should be telling people wearing masks helps; either it protects the wearer or those around the wearer. In either case we have less spread, which is the goal. If we have a shortage of masks, either surgical or n95 respirators there are other things we can do to prioritize who gets them. I just don’t think lying / misleading the public about their effectiveness is the way to do it.
• notacoward 7y ago
  It has been at least a week since that "earlier talking point" has been part of the public discourse enough to justify a meta-discourse about it. It's almost as though some people (or "people") are determined to keep banging that drum as long as it helps to sow division and undermine WHO/CDC. The focus among reasonable people is and mostly always was about how to ensure that high-quality masks and other PPE are available to those who are most at risk. How about if we focus on that?
  • dabbledash 7y ago
    If you want people to take experts seriously (and make huge personal sacrifices based on their recommendations), then there’s going to have to be some reflection of how much bad advice and prognostication was put out early on in this thing. Sweeping it under the rug or pretending it didn’t happen isn’t going to help.
    • notacoward 7y ago
      Oh, there will definitely have to be a lot of that, but "CDC can't be trusted ever again" is just another kind of disinformation we'll be studying. And speaking of what's not helpful, I think derailing discussion of current evidence and courses of action fits into that category. "Who said what when" might be important but it's not urgent. It can be deferred while we deal with the urgent.
  • yibg 7y ago
    The undermining wasn’t done by the “people” in this case, it was done by the authorities putting out contradictory and misleading information. How would the public go about evaluating what information to trust now? Should they wear masks or not? Or just go with the flavor of the day? Like I said before I understand the need to prioritize, but there’s other ways to do that. Redirecting supply to medical facilities etc, which is already being done. Most people can’t even buy n95 respirators now even if they want to. No need to lie about their effectiveness in preventing spread.
• ornornor 7y ago
  Not only taught to not wear masks but also taught to distrust what officials say. And we really didn’t need that when there are plenty of crackpot theories going around already (Coronavirus is a conspiracy, it’s triggered by 5G, vaccines are bad, etc) I feel this was a really really bad move which will result in otherwise avoidable deaths from people arguing they shouldn’t do what officials say because they lied about such an important issue before.
• marnett 7y ago
  People needed to be indoors and locked down before they could be told masks work and should be homemade. Coming out and saying they work and are critical to prevent spread would have resulted in videos much scarier than someone fighting an old woman for toilet paper. > It feels like now the population has been taught to not wear masks and it’ll be an uphill battle to reverse that. No masks is already the US status quo. In the same way propaganda told people not to buy them, they will be told to wear them and how to make them at home. It’s a pretty easy reversal when the message is demanded to be broadcast through all mediums.
  • calmworm 7y ago
    Agreed. This could likely be accomplished with a single tweet even. We might have 40% compliance overnight. Why is this not being broadcast from all possible media outlets? “Stay at home. If you just absolutely go out, wear a mask.” It’s really that simple.
    • marnett 7y ago
      It will be, but you need the whole nation on lockdown before the national zeitgeist can shift that drastically. Some states just began their shelter in place today (for example Florida and Georgia).