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Anonymous new profile, my apologies. My partner wasn't comfortable with me saying this stuff in a public way. They work in the emergency department of a hospita
by covid_stassi 7y ago
Anonymous new profile, my apologies. My partner wasn't comfortable with me saying this stuff in a public way. They work in the emergency department of a hospital in North America.
It's not just that they'll be fired if they speak out...
The hospitals are also threatening to withhold worker's compensation payouts if a staff member is caught using anything brought from home, even if it's real, name brand equipment. Got some N95s leftover from that home improvement project? Leave them at home and use this surgical mask instead (still better than nothing, to be fair). They are asking staff members to inform on other staff. To be clear: these policies were in effect for an area with coughing COVID patients. They do put surgical masks on the patients, which is very helpful, but I'm livid that they then ask the nurses to NOT use N95s in this scenario.
They are also undertaking dubious re-use and cleaning procedures that are not scientifically proven. For example, masks (both surgical and N95s, which are only for workers doing things like intubation) are being used for an entire day (also not correct usage) and then placed in paper folders for a week. At the end of the week, the masks are deemed 'clean' and reused by the same staff member. Kind of like a mask for each day of the week. There is not strong scientific evidence this is an effective or safe procedure. These procedures might work, but there isn't testing proving that fact.
I understand hospitals are in a bind here. There are simply not enough masks available (both surgical and N95) in the world. If the hospitals admit their ad-hoc procedures are ineffective they risk short term mutiny in their staff ranks. They also risk long term litigation by admitting they can't protect staff. Unfortunately their approach of 'clamp down hard on dissent' is preventing the real message from being broadcast loudly enough: It should be blindingly clear we need a crash program to ramp domestic PPE manufacturing by an order of magnitude (or two).
As an aside, please call your senators and representatives and ask them to force the Trump administration to use the DPA to bring more PPE capacity online. It's really too late now, but better late than never. We'll need to establish permanent manufacturing capacity for this anyways so we never get caught out like again.
- op03 7y agoWhat is the rationale for not being allowed to bring stuff from home?
- covid_stassi 7y agoI think officially it is that they don't know what the employees are bringing from home. They could be bringing some knockoff mask that offers very little protection. But come on, you can't use a mask with 3M stamped on it that you bought at Home Depot? I'll also speculate that it could create friction between staff - How come you get protect and I don't? It could be a problem.
- quicklyfrozen 7y agoIf you allow it, then it could also be seen as a tacit acknowledgement that n95 masks are really the proper equipment. Logical, in a terrible way.
- segmondy 7y agothat's not it. it's because other staff members don't have protection and demand for one when they see someone protecting themselves.
- geerlingguy 7y agoMy guess: litigation risk, and institutional fear of any kind of potential lawsuits. I think I remember someone who was a new-ish doctor mentioning that part of the reason some doctors' salaries were so high was they had to basically pour money into malpractice insurance.
- thinkharderdev 7y agoDon't really know but my guess is that it is a combination of: 1. Regulations against using non-approved medical equipment of unknown provenance. 2. A worry about health care workers who don't have stuff they can bring from home. It's not as if you can go about and buy an N95 mask right now. If some of the healthcare workers have respirators that they have lying around at home and some don't then it could cause friction on the unit.
- joshstrange 7y agoThis comment is not directed towards you as much as the hospitals 1. All regulations are pretty far out the window at this point, nurses are already reusing single-use items all over the place. 2. Oh so since we can't protect everyone we can't protect anyone?
- lonelappde 7y ago> They also risk long term litigation by admitting they can't protect staff. Actually failing to protect staff seems a worse litigation risk.
- covid_stassi 7y agoYou would think so, but with enough lawyers, I think the hospital could claim it just didn't know what the risks were (does anyone, really) and made a good faith effort to protect the staff. Honestly I feel for the administrators too. I'm sure they don't relish choosing between a bunch of terrible options. The real beef I have is with the federal government. This attitude towards the states of 'you should be trying to get this stuff yourselves' is ridiculous. In the face of scarce resources there is only prioritization of the resources and working to increase overall capacity. Letting the states get in bidding wars ensures masks go to the richest states, not the states where the need is greatest.
- PenelopeHopkins 7y agoTo echo OP's story (and anonymity). My partner is physician and surgical resident in the USA. My partner was told to either remove their N95 mask before doing a procedure on the the mouth of a febrile patient, or go home. My partner left, and now their job is at risk. My partner received several very direct (always careful to not make a paper trail) follow up calls from administrators and was given an ultimatum to either comply with the hospital's ludicrous PPE policy or be disciplined and/or fired. Several of our friends (some of which are pregnant!) are in an even worse situation working in the ICU and have been given the same ultimatum. As you'd expect, the rest of the hospital staff is appalled and are supportive, however, everyone is afraid to say anything. For those of you who are unfamiliar to how medical training works in the US, residents have _no_ power. If they quit, they cannot become board certified, and effectively cannot practice in any capacity. 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, and 4-7 years of resident training.
- Nuzzerino 7y agoThat's why you should relocate to a state with a one-party-consent wiretapping law. New York happens to be one of those.