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There's also this: "Many hospitals bar doctors and other staff members from wearing protective masks in public areas. Some have been disciplined for pushing bac

• sneak 7y ago
  Doctors and nurses get to choose the hospitals they work for/with. Unfortunately, new entrants to the hospital market are prevented by large state-sponsored moats, and most of the large incumbents are shady in similar ways, so the ability of the staff to choose employer based on ethics/practices is basically meaningless. More options for medical care and medical employment is the answer; the vast majority of people in society are not greedy/shady. Fix one, and you fix the other. You might also bring prices down, too. (Caveat: it's not "swift", as you requested.)
  • amarshall 7y ago
    > Doctors and nurses get to choose the hospitals they work for/with. Not always or completely even. Medical residents and fellows enter a legally binding contract to work at the hospital they match with as part of the application process, and opting to change hospitals during one’s program is nigh impossible.
  • londons_explore 7y ago
    A lot of doctors move across country borders for their careers. Ethics/practices vary a lot between countries, and it only takes a small percentage of professionals moving away from one country to a better one to motivate change.
  • travisgriggs 7y ago
    "Choice" and the "US Healthcare Industry" are two words that shouldn't be used in the same sentence. If you think you have choice in this system either as a caregiver or a carereceiver, then you are under the sad delusion that those are beads the emperor has hanging between his legs.
• save_ferris 7y ago
  I don't see a solution that puts a swift end to this. The power asymmetry between employers and workers is so vast that situations like these are inevitable. We can't continue to live in this fantasy where companies have so much power over workers and their futures. But changing this involves organizing labor, which is deeply stigmatized in the US.
  • deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  • throwawaylalala 7y ago
    They can call in sick.
    • amarshall 7y ago
      Calling in sick in medicine typically gets one of your peers called in instead, putting them at-risk instead of you for that shift.
      • joshstrange 7y ago
        And this is the shitty part, nurses have to choose between their own safety and that of their coworkers/patients. I am extremely worried for some close friends of mine who are nurses and have either preexisting conditions or are older. Those administrators can either get on the floor with the same lack of PPE or STFU in my opinion, it's downright criminal what they are saying and I hope when this is over they will be held to account.
  • lonelappde 7y ago
    Doctors are the strongest guild in USA. They have the legal power to enforce a chronic shortage of doctors. That's why why PAs were invented.
    • save_ferris 7y ago
      You're proving my point. If one of the most powerful labor groups in the economy is being subjected to ruthless firing for speaking out on critical health issues during a national crisis, then what does that say about the state of labor in the US in general?
• u801e 7y ago
  > How do we put a swift end to this nonsense? When every healthcare worker starts defying these types of rules. What are they going to do? Fire all of them?
  • toomuchtodo 7y ago
    I received emergency alert messages on all of my cellphones all night last night begging for healthcare workers to register at a state website to help. Whom the power lies with is clear.
    • jethro_tell 7y ago
      It only lies with them in collective action. Any one individual has to look after their family and doesn't have much power. Now, if they all stop working, at the same time, then they have the power and the ability to protect their families at the same time.
      • toomuchtodo 7y ago
        Remember, the stimulus bill just passed by Congress provides for arguably robust unemployment benefits for those who lose employment because of COVID, including having to quarantine to protect one’s self. I agree collective action is the path to long term success, but these workers should not feel a gun is being held to their head by health system administration.
        • vsskanth 7y ago
          but you don't get unemployment payments if you're fired
          • toomuchtodo 7y ago
            I am confident your unemployment claim will be processed if you were fired for refusing to work in hazardous conditions by your health system employer, as this would qualify as wrongful termination.
• Frost1x 7y ago
  I wouldn't hold my breath, no pun intended. Hospitals are in such shortage when you're dying you're not going to say "oh no I won't go to Hospital X because of their practices" during these sort of situations, it may literally be a proxy to a choice between life/death. Hospitals are... businesses. They will prioritize their financial success over all else which is to be expected. This sort of press is bad for business, especially long term. They are not concerned with public health, they just happen to house a few people who care about public health. Fortunately for medicial doctors, they're in such high demand that I don't think any sort of job security is an issue. Iff hospitals and state/federal governments are doing everything they can to obtain PPE (which I believe they are) then I can understand from a public health perspective why you dont want undue stress/panic across the masses (which may result in massive hoarding of PPE for themselves amongst other things), I think it's in the public's interest to know the situation so they may act even more carefully to try to prevent needing to go to hospitals to begin with. Sometimes knowing about a problem doesn't help much about solving a problem and only causes mental stress--or leads to more problems (mass panic and injuries/fatalities due to this). I somewhat suspect a lot of this slow rollout of self-isolation process also modeled out public reactions, increased 'escape' travel, hoarding, panicking, etc. and a lot of the rollout dates and gradual release of information of how bad the situation really would be was more planned out than is often suggested. Combined injuries/fatalities due to panic behaviors combined with infection vs slow rollout of isolation. The federal government has access to sophisticated modeling and they typically look at scenarios from a more holistic perspective not just epidemiological related deaths. When you looked at all the initial data coming from China, we knew this was going to be bad but somehow pretended it wouldn't be and are slowly warming up to accepting the situation. Some of it may just be pure denial, "this cant happen to me" mentalities.
  • wikibob 7y ago
    No sorry this is wrong. It was pure incompetence that led to the slow rollout.
• mcherm 7y ago
  > How do we put a swift end to this nonsense? I support emergency whistleblower legislation prohibiting any health care employer (perhaps any employer) from engaging and discrimination or adverse job actions on the basis of an employee's good-faith effort to make a non-negligent report in the public interest of a matter that has previously been reported through internal channels that the employee was aware of and were not overly burdensome.
• baron_harkonnen 7y ago
  > Surely the public will be on the side of ... What would lead you to believe that "will of the public" commands any agency at all? In a functioning democracy this would be a powerful force but we've had our democracy subverted by decades of corporate interests controlling more of our government at all levels. The United States is a democracy in name only, it's a useful myth that keeps the public feeling safe but that illusion increasingly seems less useful.
• Blackthorn 7y ago
  > How do we put a swift end to this nonsense? Unions.
  • jfnixon 7y ago
    How would that work? Doctors go out on strike?
    • Blackthorn 7y ago
      In the case, the doctors all go out with the masks as one and treat firing one as firing all of them. Nice thing about unions, though, is with them it rarely reaches a point like that.
      • jfnixon 7y ago
        And if it did in this case or the next? The docs go on strike? C'mon, that would be saying "don't call my bluff."
        • Blackthorn 7y ago
          Yes.
• tandr 7y ago
  Like... military coming in and taking over of the hospital over concern of "public health"? Administration of these places should see an _immediate_ danger to their positions, otherwise I am failing to see possibilities for any swift action, sorry.
• rckoepke 7y ago
  Grocery stores like HEB in Texas have also been preventing workers from wearing masks, even if they want to supply their own.