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Show HN: Discreet dead man's switch for victims of domestic abuse
- lvs 7y agoDoes this require a remote service to function, or is it stand-alone? If the former, what happens if that remote service goes down?
- deif 7y agoYep, it runs on AWS servers due to the fact that the user's device might be destroyed and it has file hosting, automated calls and all that jazz happening which would not be possible if it was stand-alone. In terms of redundancy and failover, barring a total region blackout on the AWS end, the remote service will continue to function forever due to the way I've set up the infrastructure. If I die then the service will simply be handed over to someone else.
- mnw21cam 7y ago"We're sorry but dead man tracker doesn't work properly without JavaScript enabled. Please enable it to continue." Yeah fine, but perhaps some explanation of what I would be seeing if I did that would be appreciated. If you want me to enable Javascript, you should at least tell me what you're going to do with that. If you make a web site with functionality that requires Javascript, and there's no other way, that's fine. But you should still leave the bits that don't need Javascript up, so we can see what we are missing.
- cdelsolar 7y agoNo, you luddite, no one uses the internet anymore without Javascript.
- toss1 7y agoBut plenty of people use NoScript[1,2] and similar configurable blockers When you open a new website, only the previously whitelisted JS sources are enabled, and you can individually check out the initially disabled sites to see if you want to trust it to run on your machine. So, yes, having some default information about the code required to view the basic site would definitely be helpful, and help build trust. [1] https://github.com/hackademix/noscript https://github.com/hackademix/noscript [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NoScript#ClearClick_(anti-clickjacking) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NoScript#ClearClick_(anti-clic...
- deif 7y agoGood advice, I'll change that so it explains that I don't use any form of tracking. It's a shame most SPA sites abuse JS to the point that users feel the need to disable it by default.
- mnw21cam 7y agoI mean, this is a good example of a web site that I'm likely to be interested in seeing, but unlikely to need to use the functionality of. It's a great idea for web sites like this to make it look generally the same (if at all possible, or have an explanation of what it would look like), but not work (with a brief message about why) when Javascript is turned off. I think that's possibly more important than claiming that you won't do any tracking. You sound like a trustworthy person, I'm sure, but of course the less reputable web sites could well claim they don't do any tracking, but then do tracking. The first paragraph is a way to say "This is what you get when you switch Javascript on", and the second is "This is what you don't get when you switch Javascript on". Different messages. The first is verifiable useful information. The second is harder to verify. And yes, I agree it is tragic that the world has reached this point.
- redis_mlc 7y agomnw21cam: you're not representative of most users. In fact, I've never seen a "Javascript apology" on any website.
- cassiet 7y agoThis isn’t mine, but the number of my users with js turned off isn’t worth the effort. You guys make a lot of noise, but not a lot of traffic.
- alkonaut 7y agoThis. Without JS the base expectation should be a blank page. Not even an error message.
- catalogia 7y agoThat's a bizarrely vindictive attitude.
- alkonaut 7y agoI’m not saying it should be that way on purpose, I’m saying that’s what you can expect. No one tests for people using terminal browsers or IE4. Noscript users are in the same niche. I understand why you’d disable JavaScript but I don’t understand how people expect those who make web apps to cater for that.
- catalogia 7y ago"Expect" is a word that has different meanings depending on the context: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/expect https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/expect > To predict or believe that something will happen In this sense, I do not expect most websites to work without javascript. > To consider obligatory or required. In this sense, I do expect most websites to work without javascript. At the very least, for accessibility reasons.
- cassiet 7y agoYou can expect all you want, I expect you’ll be disappointed. The goal to keep the web in that languid state is of the same ilk of the buggy whip. It’ll have archaic use cases, but the numbers won’t make sense for a lot of if not most future endeavours.
- woliveirajr 7y agoSeems a nice option but as it happens with any other security-through-obscurity it made me wonder if the abuser reaction wouldn't be a bit harsh if it is discovered. Wouldn't it be better if the functionality is not just hidden but also includes plausible deniability? Like creating one hidden screen that is accessed when you try to guess the word using just one specific setupable word, and showing another fake / useless screen when every other word is typed ?
- deif 7y agoFor sure, but any app store listing would give that away so that kind of obscurity only gets you so far. Apple are extremely restrictive on how you present your apps, so it will always be obvious what the app is from the listing (which is why I specifically had to use hang man, as the name of the app has to match the general functionality). I couldn't even release a separate app with the same functionality but completely reskinned as they classed it as spam. So I had a problem of only having 1 app and providing functionality to two different sets of users. One set only wants the dead man switch functionality and an initial screen that hides the app is useless to them, and the other set only wants the hidden functionality. If they were less rigorous in applying their rules then a more secure app could be made and I'm always open to suggestions. This was actually made in conjunction with liasing with a US charity for domestic abuse as it was a feature they specifically asked for.
- Ajedi32 7y agoPerhaps a PWA or a side-loadable app on Android would avoid the need for an app store listing.
- deif 7y agoYep, definitely a possibility for higher risk users in the future. The current listed app should cover off a large portion of use cases and making it simple to access is my highest priority. Side loading a more secure app for those few cases that absolutely need total peace of mind and security can round off the offering.
- 7y ago
- andybak 7y ago> At first we tried to release a separate app to keep the target audience separate but it turned out to be against Apple's developer rules that two apps could not be released with the same functionality, so we had to compromise and include everything in one app and try to lower the risk for vulnerable users as much as possible Or in a sane world talk to a human being who has the authority to understand that the rule is inappropriate in this case and allow you take the safer option. How can something as important as this not get escalated inside Apple?
- deif 7y agoYep, you wouldn't believe how many escalations and people I phoned and got nowhere. Even an email to Tim got me nowhere. After 3 months I decided that something was better than nothing.
- jenkstom 7y agoAs someone who was in an abusive relationship for decades, and my girlfriend is getting out of an even more abusive relationship, there really should be more resources for this. Or maybe there are and there just needs to be a better way to communicate with the people who need this sort of thing.
- deif 7y agoYep, it wasn't until I was contacted by an owner of a charity that handled cases of domestic abuse that I even knew it was even needed. Initially this was a hobby project I did in my spare time for when I went travelling and it's grown from there. More visibility is definitely key, and charities are already stretched so it's not like they have the resources to get this kind of thing done for them. I've been reaching out to various charities to open a channel of communication to let them know that this is available for them.
- ntucker 7y agoFor what it's worth, I knew immediately what this was for but read your entire page looking for some kind of explicit confirmation and/or clear description of the use cases. The info given almost seems intentionally coy, as if you're even trying to maintain plausible deniability on the website.
- gowld 7y agoThat's the problem with marketing secret stuff. The stuff only works if no one else knows what it is, so how you spread awareness to thousands of intended recipients but not others, using a public website?
- DonHopkins 7y agoMaybe iOS and Android should have abuse prevention as well as suicide prevention resources built into the operating system and phone app, just like accessibility and health support and find-my-phone and emergency calling, so everybody has them, and having something like that isn't a red flag. https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/make-emergency-calls-iph3c99374c/ios https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/make-emergency-calls-...
- sho 7y agoAt the risk of sounding insensitive - I don't understand what this is. I know what a dead man's switch is, of course - maybe an app that emails your next in kin your email password or cryptocurrency private key if you haven't checked in for a few months. But what would this do? SMS the hospital/police if it's been 24 hours since you played hangman? What is an actual example of intended use? I know it's probably not this simple, but it seems to me that if you're at the point where you're installing apps to take action in the case you're incapacitated by abuse, you should probably skip the app part and just take that action immediately...
- Grustaf 7y agoI was also confused, but I think it probably isn’t a dead man switch at all, maybe it’s a panic button.
- happytoexplain 7y agoThis is a classic fallacy in regards to abusive relationships. Something along the lines of "just leave the relationship", or, "just press charges for past abuses before the next one comes and have him taken away".
- mmm_grayons 7y agoI've heard this before, but am not sure to what it refers. What is this fallacy? I always figured people could just get a restraining order or a concealed carry license if needed. Do the situations of abuse commonly preclude this?
- nitrogen 7y agoAbuse can come with gaslighting and control of communication, so the abused may not trust that the alternative is better, or have the ability to get help quickly enough and permanently enough to avoid retaliation.
- seanc 7y agoYes, very much so. Abusers arrange for various forms of leverage over the people, ranging from emotional to financial, and then children or other dependents make everything that much more complex.
- Grustaf 7y agoIt doesn’t sound like this is a dead man switch, sounds more like a panic button?
- happytoexplain 7y agoDid you read the beginning? This is an extension to an existing dead man switch app whose only purpose is to hide the fact that it's a dead man switch. The underlying app is indeed a dead man switch.
- Grustaf 7y agoI read the text in the link, but I can’t figure what it is a dead mans switch _for_?
- fudged71 7y agoIt seems the web service will automatically contact whoever you have set up to be contacted, if you don't take action on the notifications from the app
- Grustaf 7y agoAha ok I see. But then I don’t see how it could be two apps, what would the app without the game do?
- c22 7y agoIt just requires you to take some action on a recurring basis. Someone who is not trying to hide that they have a deadman switch on their phone doesn't need a game, they just need a button they can push to indicate that they are still alive.
- Grustaf 7y agoOk I thought the hiding was the point, but maybe there’s a use case.
- ape4 7y agoSomething physical would be interesting. Putting on the pink lipstick triggers the alarm. Because, of course, an abusive partner may take away the phone.
- luckylion 7y ago> Because, of course, an abusive partner may take away the phone. That's the point of the app, isn't it? If you don't use the App for some amount of time, the alarm gets triggered.
- ggambetta 7y agoMaybe the words "dead man" in the name of a service about domestic abuse is not such a great idea :( It's a well known technical term for us, but probably not so much for the general public, so this could be easily misinterpreted.
- __s 7y agoAnyone who's used a lawn mower should know what it is
- ntucker 7y agoI think anyone who's used a lawnmower knows the concept but not necessarily the name.
- gowld 7y agoAnd most people aren't electric lawnmower users anyway.
- zrobotics 7y agoAll powered lawnmowers have these switches. Push types have the spring loaded lever on the handle that shuts the engine off when released, and riding mowers shut down when there isn't weight on the seat. This isn't exclusive to electric mowers at all.
- Kaiyou 7y agoKnow the functionality, but how should you guess the term from operating a lawn mower?
- johnmarcus 7y agoi've used a lawn mower many many times and there is no part of it I would have called a "dead mans switch". I'm sure it's technically there, but knowing the name is hardly a requirement. Also, i'm certain there is not a 1:1 overlap between abuse victims and lawn mower users.
- gowld 7y agoI can't imagine trusting the mindset of a dev who builds a sensitive personal safety app for (mostly) women if they calls it "dead man tracker".
- deif 7y agoSorry but this was not the original target audience, this is merely a requested feature direct from a domestic abuse charity that wanted to use the app for their victims. Thank you for your concern though.
- dot1x 7y agoMy problem with any "Dead man switch" is the fact that none of these services seem to survive. Also, can you please write somewhere on the website what's your privacy policy? Is everything encrypted? if so, with what? By it's nature this kind of service will hold very sensitive information.
- deif 7y agoThe privacy policy can be found fixed to the bottom of the website on every page (next to the copyright notice). As with any service you should assume that nothing is encrypted (even though it is) and follow other articles that I've written about how to securely maintain private information when using third party services.
- dot1x 7y agoSo in short, the answer is "no". I don't see why anybody would ever use your unsecure service or even pay for it.
- deif 7y agoThe answer is no to which question? I'd appreciate some benefit of the doubt since you don't know anything about the service and you don't seem to have read any of the associated documentation.
- StavrosK 7y agohttps://www.deadmansswitch.net/ https://www.deadmansswitch.net/ (my service) has been running for 13 years now. I guess what you mean by "survive", but that's a pretty long time.
- s_r_n 7y agoThis is a great cause, but it would probably be a good idea to explain somewhere on the website what exactly a dead man switch is and how it can be useful for domestic violence victims. The marketing seems a little too technical for the general public as it is.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- kleton 7y agoVery timely. > uncouplings surged in March as husbands and wives began emerging from weeks of government-mandated lockdowns intended to stop the spread of the novel coronavirus. Incidents of domestic violence also multiplied. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-31/divorces-spike-in-china-after-coronavirus-quarantines https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-31/divorces-...
- calebm 7y agoI've thought about building a dead man's switch product before, but I realized the immense commitment that such a product entails. It must continue to function for a very long time, and if it fails to function, very important messages would be lost. So, I hope you're in this for the long haul.
- Dicey84 7y agoComing from a background in Law Enforcement (Australia) and dealing daily with Domestic Violence, this is a great idea. Does need a polish (few bugs - can't delete switches / change reporting time?) and yes, potentially a 'cover story change' (build a simple period tracker for the female audience?) I know there are a few private and government organisations over here trying to battle this problem, with the use of technology. This would be a good addition to the options available.
- treis 7y agoI see variations on the concept of the OP in different forms like a codeword drink at a bar. Is there any evidence out there that they work?