4 ms·

> It is hard to know why anybody thought it so urgent to go to 64-bit seconds counters for internal use in the kernel. I routinely encounter systems running 15

by zrav 7y ago

> It is hard to know why anybody thought it so urgent to go to 64-bit seconds counters for internal use in the kernel. I routinely encounter systems running 15-20 year old kernels. Given that, NOW is the time to fix the 2038 problem.

loeg 7y ago
Note that 2106 is about 86 years from now — quite a bit more than 15-20. Also, 20 years ago was before the Linux 2.4 kernel. You encounter systems running Linux 2.2 routinely?!
- leoedin 7y ago
  There's at least a couple of reasons that doesn't apply. Software projects don't develop linearly. 20 years ago the Linux kernel was 8 years old, today it's 28 years old. The motivation to upgrade the relatively mature 2020 kernel will be much less than that to upgrade the immature 2000 kernel. And perhaps the biggest one - computers have changed. 20 years ago a PC that could run Linux was a big power hungry thing. Today it's the size of a box of matches. Embedded Linux PCs with limited upgrade paths are everywhere today. When I worked on satellites (stopped in 2015) we'd routinely use electronic test equipment which was running an embedded version of Windows 98. Given that the stuff shipping today is even further down the maturity curve, I think it's almost certain that it'll be used in 20 years (if it still works).
- zrav 7y ago
  Early versions of 2.6 and 2.4, release >= 15 years ago.
pabs3 7y ago
15-20 year old kernels are probably very insecure, what contexts are you seeing such old systems in?
- protomyth 7y ago
  People aren't really concerned about the security of their non-internet connected HVAC controller or elevator. If it's in the wall people don't really think about it or update it.
  - StillBored 7y ago
    And in cases where it doesn't have any communication mechanisms with the outside world, telling it its 1990 again in 20 years isn't going to be a problem. Yah the time on the thermostat will be wrong, but if no one has upgraded it in that long, its probably ok, put a piece of tape over it.
- zrav 7y ago
  Mostly embedded, industrial systems, medical devices, set-top boxes and home routers. You connect to the serial port or gain access by other means and most of the time you are greeted by ancient versions. It gives me the chills.

by zrav 7y ago

loeg 7y ago

Note that 2106 is about 86 years from now — quite a bit more than 15-20. Also, 20 years ago was before the Linux 2.4 kernel. You encounter systems running Linux 2.2 routinely?!

leoedin 7y ago
There's at least a couple of reasons that doesn't apply. Software projects don't develop linearly. 20 years ago the Linux kernel was 8 years old, today it's 28 years old. The motivation to upgrade the relatively mature 2020 kernel will be much less than that to upgrade the immature 2000 kernel. And perhaps the biggest one - computers have changed. 20 years ago a PC that could run Linux was a big power hungry thing. Today it's the size of a box of matches. Embedded Linux PCs with limited upgrade paths are everywhere today. When I worked on satellites (stopped in 2015) we'd routinely use electronic test equipment which was running an embedded version of Windows 98. Given that the stuff shipping today is even further down the maturity curve, I think it's almost certain that it'll be used in 20 years (if it still works).
zrav 7y ago
Early versions of 2.6 and 2.4, release >= 15 years ago.

pabs3 7y ago

15-20 year old kernels are probably very insecure, what contexts are you seeing such old systems in?

protomyth 7y ago
People aren't really concerned about the security of their non-internet connected HVAC controller or elevator. If it's in the wall people don't really think about it or update it.
- StillBored 7y ago
  And in cases where it doesn't have any communication mechanisms with the outside world, telling it its 1990 again in 20 years isn't going to be a problem. Yah the time on the thermostat will be wrong, but if no one has upgraded it in that long, its probably ok, put a piece of tape over it.
zrav 7y ago
Mostly embedded, industrial systems, medical devices, set-top boxes and home routers. You connect to the serial port or gain access by other means and most of the time you are greeted by ancient versions. It gives me the chills.