4 ms·

You could sequester a tonne of CO2 for under $30 right now, although the lack of demand of oil may be better for the environment if it manages to long-term redu

You could sequester a tonne of CO2 for under $30 right now, although the lack of demand of oil may be better for the environment if it manages to long-term reduce production.

tenpies 7y ago
I have actually contemplated a scenario where they pump oil into a hole in the ground for safe-keeping. It has several benefits: * You're still producing oil meaning jobs are being maintained and money is flowing. * You're potentially even refining some of it - at least certain types. * You're safely storing it where it probably won't be stolen and is safely available if it ever increases in value. * Storage is extremely low cost, potentially even free. They could even pump it and then store it in the same hole it came from. Okay that last part is obviously facetious, but there is something absurdly comical about two countries playing a game of chicken with their own petro-economies in the middle of a pandemic.
- birdyrooster 7y ago
  Also if there is ever a doomsday scenario where we lose our capacity to manufacture solar cells and other renewable generators, extra oil could be really useful for jump starting manufacturing.
- foxhop 7y ago
  raw oil is very toxic, better to leave it where it's already contained. refined oil has a TTL or expiration date.
  - CamperBob2 7y ago
    I've never heard that raw oil is especially toxic. Are you sure you aren't thinking of used oil, which is?
    - wigl 7y ago
      That shit has been down there for literal ages. If you're talking about crude, it is toxic as is the brine that comes with it, hence the need for processing.
      - grepfru_it 7y ago
        as a southern state beach-goer, you always wash the oil slicks off as soon as you find them. gasoline isn't carcinogenic because of the refining process, its because the oil itself will kill ya
    - nitrogen 7y ago
      From what I've seen/read as a layperson, crude oil is quite dangerous; it has all the volatiles that will eventually be isolated and sold or burned.
    - doodlebugging 7y ago
      My first job in the oil field was cleaning up oil spills. Specifically crude oil spilled from pipeline breaks as it was pumped from the storage tanks at the well site to refineries from processing. Oil is a general term that can include everything from fluids like condensate to near asphalt grade fluids depending on the source rock composition, depth of burial, time in oil generation window, and a bunch of other things. Being a hydrocarbon, it is composed of chains of hydrocarbon molecules in various configurations including things like benzene, a substance known to cause cancer in more states than just California. Many of the central Texas leases I worked on had storage tanks that were marked with signage warning about the presence of benzene and notifying workers to use appropriate protective gear. (late 1970's). I couldn't count the number of times we had a big spill and I ended up covered head to toe with crude oil. I have no idea what was in it. I know that the hottest fires I have ever seen were crude oil fires. I will never forget all the fire tornadoes I saw swirling on rivers and lakes and in fields as we burned off spilled crude oil. Anyway, crude oil is full of all kinds of nasty stuff and, like another poster mentioned, also has some produced water along with it that is very briny and frequently full of nasty shit itself. It is so toxic that operators have to pay to dispose of it. Areas around wells and above-ground storage ponds used in the 1920's an d1930's are still dead from the salt that washed out of those ponds and down creeks. Personally, after 40 years in the business, I hope low oil prices are the nail in the industry's coffin. They dug their own graves and it's time to shove them in and backfill the hole.
  - koolba 7y ago
    I’ve never heard of crude oil expiring. Is that a thing? And if so, how long does it last?
- gwright 7y ago
  The US strategic oil reserve is stored in "artificial caverns created in salt domes": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve_(United_States) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve_(U...
- tekstar 7y ago
  From an environmental standpoint this isn't particularly good as I'm pretty sure oil extraction and distribution and processing causes a ton of additional emissions both carbon and worse like methane.
heisenzombie 7y ago
Thanks for this comment - it sent me down an interesting rabbit hole. Sure enough - oil is approximately 85% carbon by mass. A barrel of oil weighs around 140kg, and so contains about 120kg of carbon. Carbon dioxide is 27% carbon by mass, so that barrel of oil, when oxidized, will end up as 440kg of CO2. So 1 tonne of CO2 is 2.3 barrels of oil, which would cost you.... under $30 For comparison, to sequester it after burning would cost probably closer to $100 [1] I guess this is a long winded way to say that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. [1] https://energypost.eu/10-carbon-capture-methods-compared-costs-scalability-permanence-cleanness/ https://energypost.eu/10-carbon-capture-methods-compared-cos...

You could sequester a tonne of CO2 for under $30 right now, although the lack of demand of oil may be better for the environment if it manages to long-term reduce production.

tenpies 7y ago

I have actually contemplated a scenario where they pump oil into a hole in the ground for safe-keeping. It has several benefits: * You're still producing oil meaning jobs are being maintained and money is flowing. * You're potentially even refining some of it - at least certain types. * You're safely storing it where it probably won't be stolen and is safely available if it ever increases in value. * Storage is extremely low cost, potentially even free. They could even pump it and then store it in the same hole it came from. Okay that last part is obviously facetious, but there is something absurdly comical about two countries playing a game of chicken with their own petro-economies in the middle of a pandemic.

birdyrooster 7y ago
Also if there is ever a doomsday scenario where we lose our capacity to manufacture solar cells and other renewable generators, extra oil could be really useful for jump starting manufacturing.
foxhop 7y ago
raw oil is very toxic, better to leave it where it's already contained. refined oil has a TTL or expiration date.
- CamperBob2 7y ago
  I've never heard that raw oil is especially toxic. Are you sure you aren't thinking of used oil, which is?
  - wigl 7y ago
    That shit has been down there for literal ages. If you're talking about crude, it is toxic as is the brine that comes with it, hence the need for processing.
    - grepfru_it 7y ago
      as a southern state beach-goer, you always wash the oil slicks off as soon as you find them. gasoline isn't carcinogenic because of the refining process, its because the oil itself will kill ya
  - nitrogen 7y ago
    From what I've seen/read as a layperson, crude oil is quite dangerous; it has all the volatiles that will eventually be isolated and sold or burned.
  - doodlebugging 7y ago
    My first job in the oil field was cleaning up oil spills. Specifically crude oil spilled from pipeline breaks as it was pumped from the storage tanks at the well site to refineries from processing. Oil is a general term that can include everything from fluids like condensate to near asphalt grade fluids depending on the source rock composition, depth of burial, time in oil generation window, and a bunch of other things. Being a hydrocarbon, it is composed of chains of hydrocarbon molecules in various configurations including things like benzene, a substance known to cause cancer in more states than just California. Many of the central Texas leases I worked on had storage tanks that were marked with signage warning about the presence of benzene and notifying workers to use appropriate protective gear. (late 1970's). I couldn't count the number of times we had a big spill and I ended up covered head to toe with crude oil. I have no idea what was in it. I know that the hottest fires I have ever seen were crude oil fires. I will never forget all the fire tornadoes I saw swirling on rivers and lakes and in fields as we burned off spilled crude oil. Anyway, crude oil is full of all kinds of nasty stuff and, like another poster mentioned, also has some produced water along with it that is very briny and frequently full of nasty shit itself. It is so toxic that operators have to pay to dispose of it. Areas around wells and above-ground storage ponds used in the 1920's an d1930's are still dead from the salt that washed out of those ponds and down creeks. Personally, after 40 years in the business, I hope low oil prices are the nail in the industry's coffin. They dug their own graves and it's time to shove them in and backfill the hole.
- koolba 7y ago
  I’ve never heard of crude oil expiring. Is that a thing? And if so, how long does it last?
gwright 7y ago
The US strategic oil reserve is stored in "artificial caverns created in salt domes": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve_(United_States) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve_(U...
tekstar 7y ago
From an environmental standpoint this isn't particularly good as I'm pretty sure oil extraction and distribution and processing causes a ton of additional emissions both carbon and worse like methane.

heisenzombie 7y ago

Thanks for this comment - it sent me down an interesting rabbit hole. Sure enough - oil is approximately 85% carbon by mass. A barrel of oil weighs around 140kg, and so contains about 120kg of carbon. Carbon dioxide is 27% carbon by mass, so that barrel of oil, when oxidized, will end up as 440kg of CO2. So 1 tonne of CO2 is 2.3 barrels of oil, which would cost you.... under $30 For comparison, to sequester it after burning would cost probably closer to $100 [1] I guess this is a long winded way to say that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. [1] https://energypost.eu/10-carbon-capture-methods-compared-costs-scalability-permanence-cleanness/ https://energypost.eu/10-carbon-capture-methods-compared-cos...