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I don't think you can use a scale to weigh the outcomes of technology, there WILL be positive and negative impacts. It's also useful to think about how a techn

I don't think you can use a scale to weigh the outcomes of technology, there WILL be positive and negative impacts. It's also useful to think about how a technology changes our culture, way of life and way of thought. There are many positives that can be said about plastics, but it has shifted us into a "throwaway lifestyle", i.e. packaging, containers. Many plastics are used in a very ephemeral manor, which is great if you want to consumerism. But i suspect this obsolescence is baked into plastics.

ThomPete 7y ago
These throwaway lifestyle items is someone elses business, someone elses jobs, someones elses ability to put food on their childrens table. I totally get the "war on plastic" tendencies when you see how it's hurting our oceans but it's very important to separate that which is something that can be fixed with some underlying idea that plastic in itself is a problem. It's not. It's literally right now saving lives through the ability creating single use masks, gloves, medical instruments, part of ventilators and I could go on. We are getting a taste of what the world would look like without consumerism and the use of fossil fuels etc. I don't know about you but I prefer consumerism to what we have now.
- triceratops 7y ago
  I actually like the non-consumerist, non-fossil-fuel-consuming aspects of our current situation. If it wasn't for the omnipresent dread and social isolation, I'd say things were pretty good. The air is clear, there are people walking outside, CO2 emissions are down.
  - oldsklgdfth 7y ago
    I agree, that are unintended positive consequences. I worry more about the economic impact this will have in the long run. Hopefully, it's a hiccup.
  - ThomPete 7y ago
    You also like the destruction of the economy, the 30% unemployment, the lost retirements, the collapsing mortgage market? If you just think this is a short break before we get back to normal you are in for a rude awakening. This will change everything both for us, our children and their children. Millions of companies are going to go bankrupt and people are going to get poorer which means more people are going to die from this not the least from famine.
    - triceratops 7y ago
      I think I already mentioned the specific aspects I liked. But sure go ahead and be outraged about a bunch of things I didn't say. > more people are going to die from this not the least from famine. That didn't happen in the last recession - mortality rates apparently went down overall[1], though suicides were up[2]. And farm work isn't going to stop, so it isn't clear why there would be a famine. Anyway, stay safe and take care. It's obviously a tense time for everyone, and I hope you and your family and friends are all well. 1. https://www.npr.org/2018/01/09/576669311/hidden-brain-great-recession-deaths https://www.npr.org/2018/01/09/576669311/hidden-brain-great-... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_the_Great_Recession https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_the_Great_Recession
      - ThomPete 7y ago
        Last recession was vacation compared to this. This is a very very different scenario. This is like being in war, business cant happen even if you wanted to, even if there are customers. I am not outraged, i just pointed to the consequences of what you are enjoying so much.
    - mraudiobook_com 7y ago
      It's hard to put my finger on it but this pandemic has really put a clear division between these two types of people. The ThomPete Joe Biden "dont rock the boat normies" and the HN/Bernie Sanders revolutionaries. I hope the Biden people lose.
  - gibspaulding 7y ago
    I've been thinking the same thing. It's really nice being able to go for a walk or bicycle ride without so many cars out on the road. It's neat hearing about people starting gardens, and exciting that businesses are finally being forced to take telecommuting seriously. Obviously people dying is horrible, and the economic damage could be problematic, but I do hope that whenever this is all over, some good may come of it.
- oldsklgdfth 7y ago
  I'm not making a case for plastic being/creating a "problem". Plastic as a technology has allowed us to make cheap, single use products that are easy to replace and hard to repair. Like you are saying masks, gloves, etc. In the broader sense, human thinking has shifted to this mode. We can't fix this start over, it reduces the pride of ownership and being accountable for your things. When you have no pride of your material possession, why would you develop pride for culture, institutions, countries. These are all things that we can just make to our pleasing. I would argue that this might not be a global pandemic if it were not for global trade/consumerism.
  - ThomPete 7y ago
    Sure, neither would a billion have been lifted out of poverty the last couple decades.
    - oldsklgdfth 7y ago
      Poverty is not the absence of material wealth.
      - ThomPete 7y ago
        You tell that to the people who can't make ends meet. Absence of opportunity is poverty. If the opportunities go away so does the prospect of getting out of your situation.
        oldsklgdfth 7y ago
        What situation requires getting out of?
        ThomPete 7y ago
        Not having enough for food. Not being able to pay your bills

ThomPete 7y ago

These throwaway lifestyle items is someone elses business, someone elses jobs, someones elses ability to put food on their childrens table. I totally get the "war on plastic" tendencies when you see how it's hurting our oceans but it's very important to separate that which is something that can be fixed with some underlying idea that plastic in itself is a problem. It's not. It's literally right now saving lives through the ability creating single use masks, gloves, medical instruments, part of ventilators and I could go on. We are getting a taste of what the world would look like without consumerism and the use of fossil fuels etc. I don't know about you but I prefer consumerism to what we have now.

triceratops 7y ago
I actually like the non-consumerist, non-fossil-fuel-consuming aspects of our current situation. If it wasn't for the omnipresent dread and social isolation, I'd say things were pretty good. The air is clear, there are people walking outside, CO2 emissions are down.
- oldsklgdfth 7y ago
  I agree, that are unintended positive consequences. I worry more about the economic impact this will have in the long run. Hopefully, it's a hiccup.
- ThomPete 7y ago
  You also like the destruction of the economy, the 30% unemployment, the lost retirements, the collapsing mortgage market? If you just think this is a short break before we get back to normal you are in for a rude awakening. This will change everything both for us, our children and their children. Millions of companies are going to go bankrupt and people are going to get poorer which means more people are going to die from this not the least from famine.
  - triceratops 7y ago
    I think I already mentioned the specific aspects I liked. But sure go ahead and be outraged about a bunch of things I didn't say. > more people are going to die from this not the least from famine. That didn't happen in the last recession - mortality rates apparently went down overall[1], though suicides were up[2]. And farm work isn't going to stop, so it isn't clear why there would be a famine. Anyway, stay safe and take care. It's obviously a tense time for everyone, and I hope you and your family and friends are all well. 1. https://www.npr.org/2018/01/09/576669311/hidden-brain-great-recession-deaths https://www.npr.org/2018/01/09/576669311/hidden-brain-great-... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_the_Great_Recession https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_the_Great_Recession
    - ThomPete 7y ago
      Last recession was vacation compared to this. This is a very very different scenario. This is like being in war, business cant happen even if you wanted to, even if there are customers. I am not outraged, i just pointed to the consequences of what you are enjoying so much.
  - mraudiobook_com 7y ago
    It's hard to put my finger on it but this pandemic has really put a clear division between these two types of people. The ThomPete Joe Biden "dont rock the boat normies" and the HN/Bernie Sanders revolutionaries. I hope the Biden people lose.
- gibspaulding 7y ago
  I've been thinking the same thing. It's really nice being able to go for a walk or bicycle ride without so many cars out on the road. It's neat hearing about people starting gardens, and exciting that businesses are finally being forced to take telecommuting seriously. Obviously people dying is horrible, and the economic damage could be problematic, but I do hope that whenever this is all over, some good may come of it.
oldsklgdfth 7y ago
I'm not making a case for plastic being/creating a "problem". Plastic as a technology has allowed us to make cheap, single use products that are easy to replace and hard to repair. Like you are saying masks, gloves, etc. In the broader sense, human thinking has shifted to this mode. We can't fix this start over, it reduces the pride of ownership and being accountable for your things. When you have no pride of your material possession, why would you develop pride for culture, institutions, countries. These are all things that we can just make to our pleasing. I would argue that this might not be a global pandemic if it were not for global trade/consumerism.
- ThomPete 7y ago
  Sure, neither would a billion have been lifted out of poverty the last couple decades.
  - oldsklgdfth 7y ago
    Poverty is not the absence of material wealth.
    - ThomPete 7y ago
      You tell that to the people who can't make ends meet. Absence of opportunity is poverty. If the opportunities go away so does the prospect of getting out of your situation.
      - oldsklgdfth 7y ago
        What situation requires getting out of?
        ThomPete 7y ago
        Not having enough for food. Not being able to pay your bills