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This is such a joke. France and Germany’s border closures are also against EU rules (against freedom of movement) but noöne cares.

matthewmacleod 7y ago
No they aren’t. Border closures are absolutely permitted and accepted under both EU and Schengen rules in emergencies; the current situation qualifies. It’s also absolutely asinine to compare emergency border closures with a very obvious and deliberate authoritarian move of this sort. Please don’t spread misinformation.
- aivisol 7y ago
  Interesting, I did not know that. I thought that it is allowed to implement border checks within Schengen, but not to close borders completely. Do you know where is that stated/regulated? Does it say for how long it can last?
  - sgift 7y ago
    Article 25: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A32016R0399 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A...
    - aivisol 7y ago
      Not sure. The article 25 is "General framework for the temporary reintroduction of border control at internal borders" I cannot find where it says border can be closed. It says "border control" can be reintroduced. There is a reference to 'public health' in Article 8 however: > However, on a non-systematic basis, when carrying out minimum checks on persons enjoying the right of free movement under Union law, border guards may consult national and European databases in order to ensure that such persons do not represent a genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat to the internal security, public policy, international relations of the Member States or a threat to the public health. > The consequences of such consultations shall not jeopardise the right of entry of persons enjoying the right of free movement under Union law into the territory of the Member State concerned as laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. But this says to consult "databases" not apply blanket ban. I am sure there is a law somewhere and our democratically elected EU governments fully follow it (except, maybe Hungary), but just wanted to double check...
- tester89 7y ago
  Source?
bakuninsbart 7y ago
In Germany, there was a protest last week. The only thing enforced by the police was a distance of 2m between protestors. There were also elections in Bavaria, if restricted to mail in. Free speech is alive and well. In Hungary, you can now get jailed for "undermining the government's containment efforts", this includes speech. They dissolved parliament and suspended elections. That comes after destroying the best university of Hungary for being to liberal, destroying the free media, and starting a huge misinformation campaign with a fitting jewish kapparot. It is all completely transparent, Hungary is not a democracy, it is a proto-fascist country in the heart of Europe, and this should not be tolerated.
- nkkollaw 7y ago
  We have the same laws in Italy. I don't see the big deal. Hungary just gets bad press—along with Poland—because they're not on board with your/Germany's agenda. Sorry!
  - squarefoot 7y ago
    "We have the same laws in Italy. I don't see the big deal." Please don't spread misinformation, our current laws are completely different from what Orban is doing. There indeed are over here some neo fascist leaders who are aiming at destroy our beloved country just like their precursors did nearly a century ago, though luckily they were booted out of the government last year. We're still safe, for now. What Orban is doing is akin to what Hitler and Mussolini did back then, that is, obtaining full unlimited power through democratic means, then use the power to kill those means. That is, no more parliament (this is a common pattern when democracies transition into dictatorships). Now the only way to have him step down is to ask him politely to do so, hoping not to get jailed in the process. If this seems democratic to you, then good luck when they'll do the same over here a few years from now.
    - nkkollaw 7y ago
      I find it laughable that you talk about democracy, and then you praise "booting out of the government" elected politicians you don't like. You're also misinformed about how the Italian Constitution says acts that limit freedoms should be passed which is—not how they're doing that—therefore Hitler. We'll have to wait and see. Let's see if Orban gives back his unlimited powers (might very well not be the case, no idea), and if Italy gives back citizens their freedom. I know that even 20 years after 9/11, the Patriot Act is still in effect, and Americans were not given back the freedoms they took during the emergency.

matthewmacleod 7y ago

No they aren’t. Border closures are absolutely permitted and accepted under both EU and Schengen rules in emergencies; the current situation qualifies. It’s also absolutely asinine to compare emergency border closures with a very obvious and deliberate authoritarian move of this sort. Please don’t spread misinformation.

aivisol 7y ago
Interesting, I did not know that. I thought that it is allowed to implement border checks within Schengen, but not to close borders completely. Do you know where is that stated/regulated? Does it say for how long it can last?
- sgift 7y ago
  Article 25: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A32016R0399 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A...
  - aivisol 7y ago
    Not sure. The article 25 is "General framework for the temporary reintroduction of border control at internal borders" I cannot find where it says border can be closed. It says "border control" can be reintroduced. There is a reference to 'public health' in Article 8 however: > However, on a non-systematic basis, when carrying out minimum checks on persons enjoying the right of free movement under Union law, border guards may consult national and European databases in order to ensure that such persons do not represent a genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat to the internal security, public policy, international relations of the Member States or a threat to the public health. > The consequences of such consultations shall not jeopardise the right of entry of persons enjoying the right of free movement under Union law into the territory of the Member State concerned as laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. But this says to consult "databases" not apply blanket ban. I am sure there is a law somewhere and our democratically elected EU governments fully follow it (except, maybe Hungary), but just wanted to double check...
tester89 7y ago
Source?

bakuninsbart 7y ago

In Germany, there was a protest last week. The only thing enforced by the police was a distance of 2m between protestors. There were also elections in Bavaria, if restricted to mail in. Free speech is alive and well. In Hungary, you can now get jailed for "undermining the government's containment efforts", this includes speech. They dissolved parliament and suspended elections. That comes after destroying the best university of Hungary for being to liberal, destroying the free media, and starting a huge misinformation campaign with a fitting jewish kapparot. It is all completely transparent, Hungary is not a democracy, it is a proto-fascist country in the heart of Europe, and this should not be tolerated.

nkkollaw 7y ago
We have the same laws in Italy. I don't see the big deal. Hungary just gets bad press—along with Poland—because they're not on board with your/Germany's agenda. Sorry!
- squarefoot 7y ago
  "We have the same laws in Italy. I don't see the big deal." Please don't spread misinformation, our current laws are completely different from what Orban is doing. There indeed are over here some neo fascist leaders who are aiming at destroy our beloved country just like their precursors did nearly a century ago, though luckily they were booted out of the government last year. We're still safe, for now. What Orban is doing is akin to what Hitler and Mussolini did back then, that is, obtaining full unlimited power through democratic means, then use the power to kill those means. That is, no more parliament (this is a common pattern when democracies transition into dictatorships). Now the only way to have him step down is to ask him politely to do so, hoping not to get jailed in the process. If this seems democratic to you, then good luck when they'll do the same over here a few years from now.
  - nkkollaw 7y ago
    I find it laughable that you talk about democracy, and then you praise "booting out of the government" elected politicians you don't like. You're also misinformed about how the Italian Constitution says acts that limit freedoms should be passed which is—not how they're doing that—therefore Hitler. We'll have to wait and see. Let's see if Orban gives back his unlimited powers (might very well not be the case, no idea), and if Italy gives back citizens their freedom. I know that even 20 years after 9/11, the Patriot Act is still in effect, and Americans were not given back the freedoms they took during the emergency.