5 ms·

"I've seen it myself" - So you've sat on FAANG hiring panels that made decisions specifically based on candidates' underrepresented demographics? Or you're just

"I've seen it myself" - So you've sat on FAANG hiring panels that made decisions specifically based on candidates' underrepresented demographics? Or you're just inferring based on people you met while employed at a FAANG? Or...?

christiansakai 7y ago
So basically I know a few people who can't even solve an Easy Leetcode questions. They got in as SWE L3/L4, E3/E4 and I also know one L5. Can you help me in explaining why? I don't have the intention of looking down on people. I'm just gathering data. If I can find a reasonable explanation then I want to take a look at it, and learn from it, and see where did I do wrong, so I can improve and pass the interviews next time.
- charlesu 7y ago
  I knew a lot of people at FAANG that were L4/L5 that couldn't solve Leetcode easies. Leetcode isn't part of the job, just the interviews. Getting an offer is not just a matter of solving a programming problem. It's about how you communicate. And, of course, if you're a brilliant jerk ability doesn't matter: you're not getting hired. If you're not getting past the interviews despite being a strong programmer, you may want to really think deeply about how you're communicating with your interviewer. Remember, the vast majority of people who are getting offers aren't women or minorities so that's probably not what's blocking you.
  - christiansakai 7y ago
    Your experience matches my anecdote. Hence you can imagine my total confusion once I got the interview myself (Google, 2 times, phone to onsite, Amazon one time to onsite, Facebook, one phone). In my latest FB phone for example. I was asked a Medium question that I've never seen before, and nevertheless I solved it. How do I know? Because apparently that was taken straight from Leetcode, and the interviewer didn't even bother to change the question. I copy pasted my solution to Leetcode, run it, pass 100% test cases. I got rejected.... I asked for feedback from the recruiter. Apparently I needed to do 2 Medium questions in the allocated time. I solve the first Medium question in about 30 mins, and there was only 10 mins left for the 2nd one so the interviewer didn't bother to ask me the 2nd one. The scenario that I just told you above is not unique. Venture enough to cscareerquestions and Leetcode forum you'll be surprised to see many many worse experience than this.
    - charlesu 7y ago
      Keep trying. I hate to say it, but luck is a factor. The process is by no means objective. Sometimes it's just a matter of getting the right interviewer.
      - christiansakai 7y ago
        Thank you. I am currently pivoting to learning other things that are more practical in the job. I did enough Leetcode that I started to like it (Stockholm's syndrome).
manfredo 7y ago
I've sat at company hiring panels, and have taken part in discriminatory policies first hand. At career fairs, Dropbox recruiters had us mark candidate resumes with a star for diverse candidates, two starts for "double diverse" candidates (female + URM), and "ND" for Asian male candidates. It turns out "ND" stands for "negative diversity". Literally the first thing we did was bucket candidates by the desirability of their demographics. Recruiters also got higher bonuses for recruiting diverse candidates, along with bonuses for more experienced candidates. The diverse bonus was equal to the difference between hiring an entry level IC1 and an IC6 (senior staff engineer). Usually discrimination doesn't take place in the hiring panels. Rather it's done by the people given incentives to discriminate, usually recruiters. Recruiters can infer candidates' race and gender with census data on names, and advance diverse candidates to phone screens more often than non-diverse candidates. I can also detail the company's "opportunistic hiring" plans if you want to hear more.
- christiansakai 7y ago
  I would like to hear more, but maybe HN doesn't want to. If you don't care about the risk of downvoting and this being on HN, please write so. But if not, it is ok.
  - manfredo 7y ago
    This is the part of the document that described the motivation: > The Problem Statement > Based on 177 like tech companies in Silicon Valley (market research and EOO-1 Diversity Statistics data), the percentage of diverse engineering talent is sparse. In short, 4.7% are latino, 2.1% are African American, and 19.2% are female. These candidates are being targeted with all of our top competitors with white gloves tactics, strategic outreach, and engagement strategies, while Dropbox has yet to systematically establish any of these practices to compete for this top talent and showcase our uniquely inclusive, dynamic, and thoughtful culture. > Opportunity to market DBX [Dropbox] more broadly: > Moreover, diverse engineers are the most sought after group of individuals on the market today. While the average response rate to engage is high (37%) the rate at which they are interested in moving forwards is quite low (11%). We interpret this in two ways: > First, due to the small pool and scarcity of diverse talent, companies are motivated to keep their diverse talent happy, well-compensated, and engaged; prospects are rarely on the market, and when they are, it is a highly calculated and careful search based on existing relationships. > Second, traditional sourcing engagement methods (email, LinkedIn) do not adequately showcase what makes Dropbox special, and because these candidates are so highly sought-after, it would serve us to highlight our culture early on, and to take a more long term approach to courting them. And here's the proposed solution > Opportunistic Hiring > As the business needs shift and open roles become more narrow, it will become difficult to find a home for diverse candidates that we're able to engage and who pass our bar. Wee feel like it would be a disservice to use in the long-term if we miss out on hiring critical talent for Dropbox because of current headcount constraints. To this end, we propose that Eng VP's withhold 20 heads to hire opportunistically. > When a diverse/URM candidate is interested in interviewing, regardless of headcount, we will put them through the process. If they pass the TPS [technical phone screen] we will bring them onsite and evaluate based on their skillset. * If the candidate goes to HC [hiring committee], we will proactively find a sponsor/team home for the candidate, and that team would receive a preciously withheld headcount for that hire. This was announced April of 2019. I've transcribed parts of the document that announced this policy above. I can't speak as to whether or not this is still in place as I have since left Dropbox. Interestingly, Dropbox already 23% women in tech roles[1] at the time that this was announced - larger than the figure of 19% shown above. 1. https://blog.dropbox.com/topics/company/an-update-on-diversity-for-2018 https://blog.dropbox.com/topics/company/an-update-on-diversi...

christiansakai 7y ago

So basically I know a few people who can't even solve an Easy Leetcode questions. They got in as SWE L3/L4, E3/E4 and I also know one L5. Can you help me in explaining why? I don't have the intention of looking down on people. I'm just gathering data. If I can find a reasonable explanation then I want to take a look at it, and learn from it, and see where did I do wrong, so I can improve and pass the interviews next time.

charlesu 7y ago
I knew a lot of people at FAANG that were L4/L5 that couldn't solve Leetcode easies. Leetcode isn't part of the job, just the interviews. Getting an offer is not just a matter of solving a programming problem. It's about how you communicate. And, of course, if you're a brilliant jerk ability doesn't matter: you're not getting hired. If you're not getting past the interviews despite being a strong programmer, you may want to really think deeply about how you're communicating with your interviewer. Remember, the vast majority of people who are getting offers aren't women or minorities so that's probably not what's blocking you.
- christiansakai 7y ago
  Your experience matches my anecdote. Hence you can imagine my total confusion once I got the interview myself (Google, 2 times, phone to onsite, Amazon one time to onsite, Facebook, one phone). In my latest FB phone for example. I was asked a Medium question that I've never seen before, and nevertheless I solved it. How do I know? Because apparently that was taken straight from Leetcode, and the interviewer didn't even bother to change the question. I copy pasted my solution to Leetcode, run it, pass 100% test cases. I got rejected.... I asked for feedback from the recruiter. Apparently I needed to do 2 Medium questions in the allocated time. I solve the first Medium question in about 30 mins, and there was only 10 mins left for the 2nd one so the interviewer didn't bother to ask me the 2nd one. The scenario that I just told you above is not unique. Venture enough to cscareerquestions and Leetcode forum you'll be surprised to see many many worse experience than this.
  - charlesu 7y ago
    Keep trying. I hate to say it, but luck is a factor. The process is by no means objective. Sometimes it's just a matter of getting the right interviewer.
    - christiansakai 7y ago
      Thank you. I am currently pivoting to learning other things that are more practical in the job. I did enough Leetcode that I started to like it (Stockholm's syndrome).

manfredo 7y ago

I've sat at company hiring panels, and have taken part in discriminatory policies first hand. At career fairs, Dropbox recruiters had us mark candidate resumes with a star for diverse candidates, two starts for "double diverse" candidates (female + URM), and "ND" for Asian male candidates. It turns out "ND" stands for "negative diversity". Literally the first thing we did was bucket candidates by the desirability of their demographics. Recruiters also got higher bonuses for recruiting diverse candidates, along with bonuses for more experienced candidates. The diverse bonus was equal to the difference between hiring an entry level IC1 and an IC6 (senior staff engineer). Usually discrimination doesn't take place in the hiring panels. Rather it's done by the people given incentives to discriminate, usually recruiters. Recruiters can infer candidates' race and gender with census data on names, and advance diverse candidates to phone screens more often than non-diverse candidates. I can also detail the company's "opportunistic hiring" plans if you want to hear more.

christiansakai 7y ago
I would like to hear more, but maybe HN doesn't want to. If you don't care about the risk of downvoting and this being on HN, please write so. But if not, it is ok.
- manfredo 7y ago
  This is the part of the document that described the motivation: > The Problem Statement > Based on 177 like tech companies in Silicon Valley (market research and EOO-1 Diversity Statistics data), the percentage of diverse engineering talent is sparse. In short, 4.7% are latino, 2.1% are African American, and 19.2% are female. These candidates are being targeted with all of our top competitors with white gloves tactics, strategic outreach, and engagement strategies, while Dropbox has yet to systematically establish any of these practices to compete for this top talent and showcase our uniquely inclusive, dynamic, and thoughtful culture. > Opportunity to market DBX [Dropbox] more broadly: > Moreover, diverse engineers are the most sought after group of individuals on the market today. While the average response rate to engage is high (37%) the rate at which they are interested in moving forwards is quite low (11%). We interpret this in two ways: > First, due to the small pool and scarcity of diverse talent, companies are motivated to keep their diverse talent happy, well-compensated, and engaged; prospects are rarely on the market, and when they are, it is a highly calculated and careful search based on existing relationships. > Second, traditional sourcing engagement methods (email, LinkedIn) do not adequately showcase what makes Dropbox special, and because these candidates are so highly sought-after, it would serve us to highlight our culture early on, and to take a more long term approach to courting them. And here's the proposed solution > Opportunistic Hiring > As the business needs shift and open roles become more narrow, it will become difficult to find a home for diverse candidates that we're able to engage and who pass our bar. Wee feel like it would be a disservice to use in the long-term if we miss out on hiring critical talent for Dropbox because of current headcount constraints. To this end, we propose that Eng VP's withhold 20 heads to hire opportunistically. > When a diverse/URM candidate is interested in interviewing, regardless of headcount, we will put them through the process. If they pass the TPS [technical phone screen] we will bring them onsite and evaluate based on their skillset. * If the candidate goes to HC [hiring committee], we will proactively find a sponsor/team home for the candidate, and that team would receive a preciously withheld headcount for that hire. This was announced April of 2019. I've transcribed parts of the document that announced this policy above. I can't speak as to whether or not this is still in place as I have since left Dropbox. Interestingly, Dropbox already 23% women in tech roles[1] at the time that this was announced - larger than the figure of 19% shown above. 1. https://blog.dropbox.com/topics/company/an-update-on-diversity-for-2018 https://blog.dropbox.com/topics/company/an-update-on-diversi...