7 ms·

One answer to your last: people aren't going to leave their permanent job for one that has a risk of being temporary.

by T-hawk 7y ago

twomoretime 7y ago
If you make it as far as internship to hire, the company is signaling more of a commitment than just temp work. It's basically like a probationary period. Also this would be especially good for graduates with little work experience.
- djannzjkzxn 7y ago
  Sure, that’s exactly what an internship is and it’s why these companies offer it. If you gave a similar opportunity to people who are already in the industry, you would have a major adverse selection problem where the better candidates would never pick a “probationary” job with second-class status over a normal job.
  - twomoretime 7y ago
    >Sure, that’s exactly what an internship is and it’s why these companies I don't think so, to me an internship is temporary by nature and does not have a "guaranteed" job at the end based on good performance. >you would have a major adverse selection problem where the better candidates would never pick a “probationary” job with second-class status over a normal job The selection process is so competitive right now that I think plenty of people would be happy for such a change if it meant a more reasonable interview process. Plenty of strong candidates are being thrown away over arbitrary metrics right now anyway. Personally I'd take a non-leetcode non-white board interview with a probationary period over the typical grueling 2-5 round FAANG process, and I'm sure I'm not the only competent developer who expects to have trouble with the typical FAANG process.
    - djannzjkzxn 7y ago
      >I don't think so, to me an internship is temporary by nature and does not have a "guaranteed" job at the end based on good performance. If you do a great job in a FAANG internship then you will get a full time offer at the end. Does the probationary period you propose have a lower performance bar than is applied post-internship? If so then it seems it wouldn’t achieve FAANG’s standards. > The selection process is so competitive right now that I think plenty of people would be happy for such a change if it meant a more reasonable interview process. Plenty of strong candidates are being thrown away over arbitrary metrics right now anyway. FAANG doesn’t need to attract more weaker candidates who can’t pass the interview, they are more concerned about getting strong candidates who have multiple offers to pick them. For less competitive candidates there are contract positions.
- xyzzyz 7y ago
  This only works for new grads. Why would I ever want to quit my job to get hired as an intern? In our industry, quality people overwhelmingly already have jobs, so this way you’re restricting yourself to pool of lower quality candidates on average.
  - twomoretime 7y ago
    The last time I was applying, I was finally at a place in my career where I felt I could choose an interesting company to work for. I applied for places like Tesla and SpaceX and Boston Dynamics and such. I ended up in a fantastic role through the typical process, but if someone had offered me internship to hire at a desirable company I gladly would have taken it and used it as an opportunity to demonstrate my value. Maybe this is something only companies with reputations can do. Hiring a candidate based on a 1 hour interview and a minimal coding exercise is a pretty substantial risk. I'm surprised more companies don't do this as a sort of hedge. I doubt it'd be that discouraging - do you know how many candidates apply for the average role right now? And if they're willing to jump through all the ridiculous leetcode hoops now, I imagine they'd be willing to take the internship too. Especially if that means we can return to saner interviews.
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One answer to your last: people aren't going to leave their permanent job for one that has a risk of being temporary.

by T-hawk 7y ago

One answer to your last: people aren't going to leave their permanent job for one that has a risk of being temporary.

If you make it as far as internship to hire, the company is signaling more of a commitment than just temp work. It's basically like a probationary period. Also this would be especially good for graduates with little work experience.

djannzjkzxn 7y ago
Sure, that’s exactly what an internship is and it’s why these companies offer it. If you gave a similar opportunity to people who are already in the industry, you would have a major adverse selection problem where the better candidates would never pick a “probationary” job with second-class status over a normal job.
- twomoretime 7y ago
  >Sure, that’s exactly what an internship is and it’s why these companies I don't think so, to me an internship is temporary by nature and does not have a "guaranteed" job at the end based on good performance. >you would have a major adverse selection problem where the better candidates would never pick a “probationary” job with second-class status over a normal job The selection process is so competitive right now that I think plenty of people would be happy for such a change if it meant a more reasonable interview process. Plenty of strong candidates are being thrown away over arbitrary metrics right now anyway. Personally I'd take a non-leetcode non-white board interview with a probationary period over the typical grueling 2-5 round FAANG process, and I'm sure I'm not the only competent developer who expects to have trouble with the typical FAANG process.
  - djannzjkzxn 7y ago
    >I don't think so, to me an internship is temporary by nature and does not have a "guaranteed" job at the end based on good performance. If you do a great job in a FAANG internship then you will get a full time offer at the end. Does the probationary period you propose have a lower performance bar than is applied post-internship? If so then it seems it wouldn’t achieve FAANG’s standards. > The selection process is so competitive right now that I think plenty of people would be happy for such a change if it meant a more reasonable interview process. Plenty of strong candidates are being thrown away over arbitrary metrics right now anyway. FAANG doesn’t need to attract more weaker candidates who can’t pass the interview, they are more concerned about getting strong candidates who have multiple offers to pick them. For less competitive candidates there are contract positions.
xyzzyz 7y ago
This only works for new grads. Why would I ever want to quit my job to get hired as an intern? In our industry, quality people overwhelmingly already have jobs, so this way you’re restricting yourself to pool of lower quality candidates on average.
- twomoretime 7y ago
  The last time I was applying, I was finally at a place in my career where I felt I could choose an interesting company to work for. I applied for places like Tesla and SpaceX and Boston Dynamics and such. I ended up in a fantastic role through the typical process, but if someone had offered me internship to hire at a desirable company I gladly would have taken it and used it as an opportunity to demonstrate my value. Maybe this is something only companies with reputations can do. Hiring a candidate based on a 1 hour interview and a minimal coding exercise is a pretty substantial risk. I'm surprised more companies don't do this as a sort of hedge. I doubt it'd be that discouraging - do you know how many candidates apply for the average role right now? And if they're willing to jump through all the ridiculous leetcode hoops now, I imagine they'd be willing to take the internship too. Especially if that means we can return to saner interviews.
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