4 ms·

this is fine, so long as you're looking to get hired by a megacorp (fine,faang.) but for most people theres a point of diminishing returns. Do you want to spe

this is fine, so long as you're looking to get hired by a megacorp (fine,faang.) but for most people theres a point of diminishing returns. Do you want to spend six months to a year out of your life drilling for a $10k raise working for a company that works you like a rented mule anyhow, or do you settle with your present quality of life and conclude 70k is enough to do whatever you wanted to reasonably do anyway. Then theres the variable of google et. al. and their random eleven-round interviews. Are you patient enough to sit through questions like "how many kegs of beer on a schoolbus" and "how to build a datacenter on the moon" from some grinning techbro only to be told youre re-invited to another round of interviews? Finally, age. You can cram and cram but if youre over 50 your chances of building that moon datacenter are better than getting hired.

dudul 7y ago
> Are you patient enough to sit through questions like "how many kegs of beer on a schoolbus" and "how to build a datacenter on the moon" from some grinning techbro only to be told youre re-invited to another round of interviews? I systematically end all interviews when they've reached this point. As soon as the smart-ass finishes their stupid question I just say "I think we're done here". I can stomach take homes, even whiteboarding, but don't ask me how many tennis balls would fit in the Empire State Building.
- praptak 7y ago
  Does this actually happen? I thought these "get out of the blender" and "why are manholes round" puzzles were the waterfall of hiring. They were written about because they were so bad, everybody agreed they are horrible and they weren't that popular to begin with.
  - dudul 7y ago
    The last time I really looked for a job was maybe 4 or 5 years ago. I interviewed at ~5 or 6 companies and I got a variation of this 2 or 3 times. So let's say 1/3rd of the interviews. They do happen yes, I don't know if it's common or if I'm just not very lucky :)
- mapmap 7y ago
  What was their response after you said "I think we're done here?"
  - dudul 7y ago
    Usually they don't really understand what I mean, and I just elaborate by explaining that I have no interest in working for a company that uses this type of brainteaser to decide who to hire. One time the guy got half angry, started defending his process and just walked me out. Another time they tried to move on to the next interviewer and I just said I wasn't interested anymore, it would be a waste of time. Obviously I never got a positive response after saying that. I still dream of the day when the interviewer will shout "that's right! That was the test! You passed!" :)
    - DeathArrow 7y ago
      Guys asking stupid questions want to believe they are clever. Saying you aren't interested might make them feel offended.
kevinventullo 7y ago
> "how many kegs of beer on a schoolbus" and "how to build a datacenter on the moon" I interviewed at Google and Facebook in 2015 and never got any questions like that. I don't think they've had those type of brainteasers for over a decade.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
jasondclinton 7y ago
I agree with a few things you said but you're also wrong about a few things. FAANG compensation is much higher than you think. $200k/year (including stock) in the Bay Area for new grads is common. Yes, the prep for these interviews is insane but what has effectively happened (and this is supported by the article) is that companies have offloaded the selection work to the interviewee: they will only be able to pass if they are willing to do the ridiculous prep work. And yes, the interview questions have nothing to do with the job; that's not the point. Sadly, the process is often selecting for intelligent, compliant worker bees and not, what I would prefer, more creatively-inclined people. I agree with you: depending on what team you end up on, you could be asked to clock-in, crank out code, and clock-out without much creativity or input into anything. BTW, Google doesn't use brain teasers since 15+ years ago. But, there is the occasional interviewer who asks questions about trivia that only they know about. This is supposed to be banned but there's no consequences for interviewers who do this. Hiring committees (who make the decision) usually throw out these questions when they see them in the list of interview feedback that they are using to make a decision. Re: age. I worked on a team at FAANG that has tried very hard to hire folks with industry experience and we haven't found any resistance from interviewers to that. However, when talking to potential interviewees, we have found that very few are willing to subject themselves to the interviewing process for the reasons that you've outlined above. I don't blame them.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- mpeg 7y ago
  Only in the Bay Area, FAANG in the UK pays at or under average market rate.
- DeathArrow 7y ago
  Probably FAANG pay those levels in Bay Area due to the insane cost of living. Other companies hiring in that area might pay similar levels. How about other US states or other countries? I don't live in US, and where I live they pay about the average salary, maybe a tiny bit more.
throwaway49494 7y ago
I decided that I wanted a job at Google, so I did the only reasonable and started grinding Leetcodes, probably at the same level as Recursive Cactus. I even took two days a week off for a couple of months to just do leetcodes. ~10 hours every weekend was Leetcodes. I read the whole CLRS (and made sure that I understood 80% at least). I wrote a thesis. I studied maths. I dug deep into databases and distributed systems. All this at the same time as I was working a full-time job as a softare engineer at a world-famous tech company and as a head of engineering at a startup. I've been programming my whole life, and I've got a lot of experience with Java, C++ and Ruby, and now 10 years professionally. I've written operating systems, game engines, networking protocols and many products from the ground up. I get great feedback wherever I go and I learn systems very quickly, and I'm soon the "go to"-guy at a new place. I tend to out-experience the "old guys" that everyone look up to. But Google? I was invited for a video interview. I think I might've miscommunicated my understanding of database transactions (though I got great feedback on my coding tests), but alas, from that point, the recruiter lost any interest they might've had. For some position, I had to ask multiple times to learn that it was internally filled. This is a pretty high bar IMO.
- meestaahjoshee 7y ago
  you sound like a great engineer and mind, there's no reason to think you couldn't pass these bars. try again - there's randomness and variance to the interview process. most FAANG engineers did not get in on their first tries and without even more prep a second time around most likely. and even then you might just be unlucky and get a bad interviewer who won't hire you for any arbitrary reason.
  - throwaway49494 7y ago
    Thanks for the kind words. Unfortunately I'm not sure the stress is worth it. Also, it's not like I'm getting bombarded by FAANG recruiters anymore (where did they all go?), and I'm not going to submit my CV to a "black hole"...

dudul 7y ago

> Are you patient enough to sit through questions like "how many kegs of beer on a schoolbus" and "how to build a datacenter on the moon" from some grinning techbro only to be told youre re-invited to another round of interviews? I systematically end all interviews when they've reached this point. As soon as the smart-ass finishes their stupid question I just say "I think we're done here". I can stomach take homes, even whiteboarding, but don't ask me how many tennis balls would fit in the Empire State Building.

praptak 7y ago
Does this actually happen? I thought these "get out of the blender" and "why are manholes round" puzzles were the waterfall of hiring. They were written about because they were so bad, everybody agreed they are horrible and they weren't that popular to begin with.
- dudul 7y ago
  The last time I really looked for a job was maybe 4 or 5 years ago. I interviewed at ~5 or 6 companies and I got a variation of this 2 or 3 times. So let's say 1/3rd of the interviews. They do happen yes, I don't know if it's common or if I'm just not very lucky :)
mapmap 7y ago
What was their response after you said "I think we're done here?"
- dudul 7y ago
  Usually they don't really understand what I mean, and I just elaborate by explaining that I have no interest in working for a company that uses this type of brainteaser to decide who to hire. One time the guy got half angry, started defending his process and just walked me out. Another time they tried to move on to the next interviewer and I just said I wasn't interested anymore, it would be a waste of time. Obviously I never got a positive response after saying that. I still dream of the day when the interviewer will shout "that's right! That was the test! You passed!" :)
  - DeathArrow 7y ago
    Guys asking stupid questions want to believe they are clever. Saying you aren't interested might make them feel offended.

kevinventullo 7y ago

> "how many kegs of beer on a schoolbus" and "how to build a datacenter on the moon" I interviewed at Google and Facebook in 2015 and never got any questions like that. I don't think they've had those type of brainteasers for over a decade.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

jasondclinton 7y ago

I agree with a few things you said but you're also wrong about a few things. FAANG compensation is much higher than you think. $200k/year (including stock) in the Bay Area for new grads is common. Yes, the prep for these interviews is insane but what has effectively happened (and this is supported by the article) is that companies have offloaded the selection work to the interviewee: they will only be able to pass if they are willing to do the ridiculous prep work. And yes, the interview questions have nothing to do with the job; that's not the point. Sadly, the process is often selecting for intelligent, compliant worker bees and not, what I would prefer, more creatively-inclined people. I agree with you: depending on what team you end up on, you could be asked to clock-in, crank out code, and clock-out without much creativity or input into anything. BTW, Google doesn't use brain teasers since 15+ years ago. But, there is the occasional interviewer who asks questions about trivia that only they know about. This is supposed to be banned but there's no consequences for interviewers who do this. Hiring committees (who make the decision) usually throw out these questions when they see them in the list of interview feedback that they are using to make a decision. Re: age. I worked on a team at FAANG that has tried very hard to hire folks with industry experience and we haven't found any resistance from interviewers to that. However, when talking to potential interviewees, we have found that very few are willing to subject themselves to the interviewing process for the reasons that you've outlined above. I don't blame them.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
mpeg 7y ago
Only in the Bay Area, FAANG in the UK pays at or under average market rate.
DeathArrow 7y ago
Probably FAANG pay those levels in Bay Area due to the insane cost of living. Other companies hiring in that area might pay similar levels. How about other US states or other countries? I don't live in US, and where I live they pay about the average salary, maybe a tiny bit more.

throwaway49494 7y ago

I decided that I wanted a job at Google, so I did the only reasonable and started grinding Leetcodes, probably at the same level as Recursive Cactus. I even took two days a week off for a couple of months to just do leetcodes. ~10 hours every weekend was Leetcodes. I read the whole CLRS (and made sure that I understood 80% at least). I wrote a thesis. I studied maths. I dug deep into databases and distributed systems. All this at the same time as I was working a full-time job as a softare engineer at a world-famous tech company and as a head of engineering at a startup. I've been programming my whole life, and I've got a lot of experience with Java, C++ and Ruby, and now 10 years professionally. I've written operating systems, game engines, networking protocols and many products from the ground up. I get great feedback wherever I go and I learn systems very quickly, and I'm soon the "go to"-guy at a new place. I tend to out-experience the "old guys" that everyone look up to. But Google? I was invited for a video interview. I think I might've miscommunicated my understanding of database transactions (though I got great feedback on my coding tests), but alas, from that point, the recruiter lost any interest they might've had. For some position, I had to ask multiple times to learn that it was internally filled. This is a pretty high bar IMO.

meestaahjoshee 7y ago
you sound like a great engineer and mind, there's no reason to think you couldn't pass these bars. try again - there's randomness and variance to the interview process. most FAANG engineers did not get in on their first tries and without even more prep a second time around most likely. and even then you might just be unlucky and get a bad interviewer who won't hire you for any arbitrary reason.
- throwaway49494 7y ago
  Thanks for the kind words. Unfortunately I'm not sure the stress is worth it. Also, it's not like I'm getting bombarded by FAANG recruiters anymore (where did they all go?), and I'm not going to submit my CV to a "black hole"...