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This is why I went back to Mojave. Apple has had a history of breaking dev environments on release for people who don't code under their ecosystem of dev tools

This is why I went back to Mojave. Apple has had a history of breaking dev environments on release for people who don't code under their ecosystem of dev tools (well on second thought, they make life difficult at times even for people that do), and I don't see that trend changing in the future. Eventually every new release has stabilised, but it seems that doesn't hold true for Catalina.

ImprovedSilence 7y ago
haha oh boy. I was actually just about to install Catalina today, figuring I'd put it off long enough and everything has to be smooth by now (and system update bugs me about it often enough)... But lo and behold, I log into HN and see this thread....
- eslaught 7y ago
  Just FYI, you can disable that notification: https://www.macworld.com/article/3447396/how-to-stop-getting-a-reminder-to-update-to-catalina-in-macos.html https://www.macworld.com/article/3447396/how-to-stop-getting... It does not prevent the red notification dot on the System Preferences app, but it does mean at least you don't get the notifications pop up on your screen.
- KarlKemp 7y ago
  I’ve had zero problems with Catalina. You can also find complaints about every release of MacOS going back a decade+.
taormina 7y ago
A history of breaking dev environments? I'd argue they have a history of breaking everything on release. I do agree that they have a history of stablizing after a few months, but it's been longer than that.
- djsumdog 7y ago
  Yea, Apple doesn't care about backwards comparability. You can run some ancient 32-bit Windows games on Win 10 (so long as they don't use DRM that uses low-level things like direct CD/DVD I/O). If you have a collection of physical disc Mac games, there is a good chance 0% of them run on 10.15 (or many of the releases leading up to it).
  - dwighttk 7y ago
    we are getting close to 10 years since I owned a Mac with an optical drive (and definitely a decade+ since I used an optical drive on my mac very often)
  - Polylactic_acid 7y ago
    There is a good chance that less than 10% of your mac games from a few years ago work on current macos since they killed 32bit support. And now there will be essentially no new mac games since they will not support vulkan and stopped updating openGL.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      There are plenty of new Mac games, since all game engines that matter already added Metal support and I bet that long term Apple Arcade will have more games than Desktop Linux. So far Vulkan has been mostly a thing on Linux anyway.
    - 1propionyl 7y ago
      The bit about a Vulkan and OpenGL isn't really accurate. Practically no one, apart from some hobbyists working on side projects, are actually using Vulkan or Metal or D3D12 directly to make games or applications. These APIs weren't written for end-developers to use directly, they were written for engine developers. I mean, it's fun to try. But you'll have to write something like ~1200 lines of C/C++ just to render a single triangle. It's a far cry from playing around with OpenGL immediate mode. And to be frank, Vulkan/Metal/D3D12 are about as similar to one another as major graphics APIs have ever been. Sure, there's quite a lot of differences, but the broad strokes are more or less similar.
dman 7y ago
The unix illusion breaks more and more with every release
- rhizome 7y ago
  Every day they stray further from BSD's light
fmajid 7y ago
The main reason why I won't buy the new MacBook Air is that it's Catalina only. Good thing my Mac Mini shipped with Mojave despite my ordering it months after the Catalina release. It's really the Windows Vista of macOS.

ImprovedSilence 7y ago

haha oh boy. I was actually just about to install Catalina today, figuring I'd put it off long enough and everything has to be smooth by now (and system update bugs me about it often enough)... But lo and behold, I log into HN and see this thread....

eslaught 7y ago
Just FYI, you can disable that notification: https://www.macworld.com/article/3447396/how-to-stop-getting-a-reminder-to-update-to-catalina-in-macos.html https://www.macworld.com/article/3447396/how-to-stop-getting... It does not prevent the red notification dot on the System Preferences app, but it does mean at least you don't get the notifications pop up on your screen.
KarlKemp 7y ago
I’ve had zero problems with Catalina. You can also find complaints about every release of MacOS going back a decade+.

taormina 7y ago

A history of breaking dev environments? I'd argue they have a history of breaking everything on release. I do agree that they have a history of stablizing after a few months, but it's been longer than that.

djsumdog 7y ago
Yea, Apple doesn't care about backwards comparability. You can run some ancient 32-bit Windows games on Win 10 (so long as they don't use DRM that uses low-level things like direct CD/DVD I/O). If you have a collection of physical disc Mac games, there is a good chance 0% of them run on 10.15 (or many of the releases leading up to it).
- dwighttk 7y ago
  we are getting close to 10 years since I owned a Mac with an optical drive (and definitely a decade+ since I used an optical drive on my mac very often)
- Polylactic_acid 7y ago
  There is a good chance that less than 10% of your mac games from a few years ago work on current macos since they killed 32bit support. And now there will be essentially no new mac games since they will not support vulkan and stopped updating openGL.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    There are plenty of new Mac games, since all game engines that matter already added Metal support and I bet that long term Apple Arcade will have more games than Desktop Linux. So far Vulkan has been mostly a thing on Linux anyway.
  - 1propionyl 7y ago
    The bit about a Vulkan and OpenGL isn't really accurate. Practically no one, apart from some hobbyists working on side projects, are actually using Vulkan or Metal or D3D12 directly to make games or applications. These APIs weren't written for end-developers to use directly, they were written for engine developers. I mean, it's fun to try. But you'll have to write something like ~1200 lines of C/C++ just to render a single triangle. It's a far cry from playing around with OpenGL immediate mode. And to be frank, Vulkan/Metal/D3D12 are about as similar to one another as major graphics APIs have ever been. Sure, there's quite a lot of differences, but the broad strokes are more or less similar.

dman 7y ago

The unix illusion breaks more and more with every release

rhizome 7y ago
Every day they stray further from BSD's light

fmajid 7y ago

The main reason why I won't buy the new MacBook Air is that it's Catalina only. Good thing my Mac Mini shipped with Mojave despite my ordering it months after the Catalina release. It's really the Windows Vista of macOS.