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Also, Zoom's entire engineering team is based in China [1]. China and Chinese companies have no real culture of user centric privacy. [1] https://news.ycombina

Also, Zoom's entire engineering team is based in China [1]. China and Chinese companies have no real culture of user centric privacy. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22707528 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22707528 Edit: Why downvote me? I am not trying to stir up flame wars. Saying anything against China has become impossible to do on HN. Voices get drowned despite of raising real legitimate concerns about privacy, especially for a tool used by millions all of a sudden during this pandemic. People should be speaking up on HN. I know, I am not supposed to complain about downvotes on HN, I've read the guidelines. Edit2: Not able to find the source for Tianjin datacenter, I will reply if I can find it. Please take it with a grain of salt. Edit3: Holyshit, so much attention on my comment. Redacting unsubstantiated claims and adding more sources that can be traced on the wikipedia section of Zoom privacy criticisms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoom_Video_Communications#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoom_Video_Communications#Crit...

Lucasoato 7y ago
totalitarian dictatorship intensifies
- dang 7y ago
  Please stop posting unsubstantive comments here.
kerng 7y ago
Thanks for sharing. I'm not too concerned about engineering happening in China but data storage seems problematic, especially because of the lack of encryption on their side. The post or the CNBC link don't seem to have the word Tianjin in them (comments do). Can you provide more details or another source? If that's indeed true I won't be hopping on a Zoom call later this week with my bank for instance.
- fermienrico 7y ago
  I'll try to dig out where I read it - Google isn't helping. I am gonna edit my comment to clarify about the source.
nothrabannosir 7y ago
You get downvoted because every post critical of China gets hit, regardless of quality or veracity.
- dang 7y ago
  The post has been heavily upvoted, and what you've said isn't close to true. Please read and follow the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
zorked 7y ago
Your comment is at the top. Please don't complain about downvoting. "China and Chinese companies have no real culture of user centric privacy." Citation needed. That's one billion individuals you are talking about.
- dang 7y ago
  I don't think it's fair to call that borderline racist. That's an extremely strong word; let's not escalate where it isn't needed. The problem with the statement is that it doesn't come with any substantiation, or additional information.
  - zorked 7y ago
    Edited. Feel free to delete my comment, it's redundant now.
    - dang 7y ago
      I think the edited version of your comment is just fine.
dang 7y ago
Please don't break the site guidelines [1] by going on about downvoting. Your comment has been heavily upvoted. Meanwhile complaints like that linger on as off-topic and false, and don't garbage-collect themselves. You can use HN Search to verify that HN sees plenty of comments "saying anything against China". The topic is extremely flame-prone because people are wont to hurl generalizations at each other, and worse. Nationalistic flamebait and flamewar is a big problem on HN [2] and destructive of the spirit of this site [1]. Individuals have been attacked here for just for expressing their views while being (or being assumed to be) Chinese, and at least one person was hounded off the site altogether. I'm sure you'll agree that that's shocking and not at all the community we want to be. None of us wants it, but it's easy to get it anyway, once such flames get going. I don't think your comment was nationalistic flamebait, except insofar as it was rather unsubstantive. Unsubstantive comments on inflammatory topics are guaranteed to come across in a flamey way to some segment of the readership, even when that wasn't your intent. Intent doesn't communicate itself, unfortunately, so the burden is on the commenter to disambiguate [4]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20nationalistic&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21200971 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21200971 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21195898 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21195898 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19404162 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19404162 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22608635 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22608635 [4] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20burden%20disambiguate&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
- fermienrico 7y ago
  Understood, thanks and accept my apologies. I have some feedback - please make exceptions when discussing fact based discussions around privacy when it is not tending towards flame wars, especially related to Chinese influence and erosion of privacy. I can see why this can lead to flame wars but that's where you should step in and moderate. I just read your links to people getting harrased if they are Chinese, that's not cool.
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Lucasoato 7y ago

totalitarian dictatorship intensifies

dang 7y ago
Please stop posting unsubstantive comments here.

kerng 7y ago

Thanks for sharing. I'm not too concerned about engineering happening in China but data storage seems problematic, especially because of the lack of encryption on their side. The post or the CNBC link don't seem to have the word Tianjin in them (comments do). Can you provide more details or another source? If that's indeed true I won't be hopping on a Zoom call later this week with my bank for instance.

fermienrico 7y ago
I'll try to dig out where I read it - Google isn't helping. I am gonna edit my comment to clarify about the source.

nothrabannosir 7y ago

You get downvoted because every post critical of China gets hit, regardless of quality or veracity.

dang 7y ago
The post has been heavily upvoted, and what you've said isn't close to true. Please read and follow the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

zorked 7y ago

Your comment is at the top. Please don't complain about downvoting. "China and Chinese companies have no real culture of user centric privacy." Citation needed. That's one billion individuals you are talking about.

dang 7y ago
I don't think it's fair to call that borderline racist. That's an extremely strong word; let's not escalate where it isn't needed. The problem with the statement is that it doesn't come with any substantiation, or additional information.
- zorked 7y ago
  Edited. Feel free to delete my comment, it's redundant now.
  - dang 7y ago
    I think the edited version of your comment is just fine.

dang 7y ago

Please don't break the site guidelines [1] by going on about downvoting. Your comment has been heavily upvoted. Meanwhile complaints like that linger on as off-topic and false, and don't garbage-collect themselves. You can use HN Search to verify that HN sees plenty of comments "saying anything against China". The topic is extremely flame-prone because people are wont to hurl generalizations at each other, and worse. Nationalistic flamebait and flamewar is a big problem on HN [2] and destructive of the spirit of this site [1]. Individuals have been attacked here for just for expressing their views while being (or being assumed to be) Chinese, and at least one person was hounded off the site altogether. I'm sure you'll agree that that's shocking and not at all the community we want to be. None of us wants it, but it's easy to get it anyway, once such flames get going. I don't think your comment was nationalistic flamebait, except insofar as it was rather unsubstantive. Unsubstantive comments on inflammatory topics are guaranteed to come across in a flamey way to some segment of the readership, even when that wasn't your intent. Intent doesn't communicate itself, unfortunately, so the burden is on the commenter to disambiguate [4]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20nationalistic&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21200971 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21200971 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21195898 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21195898 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19404162 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19404162 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22608635 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22608635 [4] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20burden%20disambiguate&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

fermienrico 7y ago
Understood, thanks and accept my apologies. I have some feedback - please make exceptions when discussing fact based discussions around privacy when it is not tending towards flame wars, especially related to Chinese influence and erosion of privacy. I can see why this can lead to flame wars but that's where you should step in and moderate. I just read your links to people getting harrased if they are Chinese, that's not cool.

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