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‘Escape communities’ are the newest hideaways from the pandemic
- luch 7y agoIn my country the wealthy went ... in their summer house on the islands. You know, the typical location which is usually not self-sufficient and definitively not autonomous when it come to medical care facilities.
- xfitm3 7y agoTheres nothing wrong with seeking comfort in this weird time. Even if you're rich and have a house on an island.
- throwanem 7y agoThere's plenty wrong with being a damned fool, especially if your damnfoolishness poses a real risk of harm to others.
- exclusiv 7y agoHow does driving to your second house pose a real risk?
- lambertsimnel 7y agoDriving to a 2nd home in a more sparsely populated area might endanger people if some people leaving cities are carrying Covid 19. If those more sparsely populated areas have relatively easily overwhelmed healthcare systems, then they're especially dangerous places to have or spread the virus. Covid 19 is likely to be more common in big cities, which tend to have the best resourced healthcare. Driving to a 2nd home in a more densely populated area might be less dangerous, but could still spread the virus.
- ryanianian 7y agoAs long as you self-quarantine for the recommended 14 days after arriving somewhere new, you're actually decreasing the number of potential spreading vectors by removing another person from the densely-populated area. It's key that you be strict with your quarantine and don't go to stores/gas stations/etc.
- danharaj 7y agoHave you met rich people?
- ryanianian 7y agoYou don't have to be rich to have a second home in a rural area.
- throwanem 7y agoDon't you?
- ryanianian 7y agoYou can get a second home outside of the NYC area for under $70k. It can come to as little as $15k down and $500/month all-in including utilities/taxes/*. Not chump-change but certainly not "rich" levels of money.
- danharaj 7y agoSure, and those people I'm more confident would be conscientious neighbors. But people who have second houses in tourist destinations, well, (X) doubt.
- throwanem 7y agoIt shouldn't need explaining to anyone who's been paying attention at all for the last two months, but: You can spend up to two weeks infected and contagious before you start showing symptoms. So when you drive a long way, from a place with lots of cases to a place with few or none, and then do stuff like go to stores to get groceries or whatever the hell rich people do to open up a vacation house that's been uninhabited for a while, you're quite likely to be spreading the disease without realizing it. That's a favor to the virus, but not so much to the townies of whatever picturesque vacation destination you're gracing with your property taxes - and where hospital support is weaker in any case than wherever you conceive of yourself as fleeing from, because picturesque vacation destinations don't need much or any ICU resource most of the time.
- ryanianian 7y agoThere is a way to do it safely: follow the same 14-day self-quarantine regimen that's recommended for anyone who's traveled. Don't go to stores, don't go to gas stations, pretend like there is nuclear fallout outside.
- throwanem 7y agoI feel like that's a lot of benefit of the doubt on behalf of someone who's already behaving selfishly, you know?
- ryanianian 7y agoSorry, but how is it selfish? If you can leave a dense area and self-quarantine for 14 days, you're actually doing a net positive by reducing density. The only added "risk" is that you might crash your car on the way. That feels less bad than retransmitting the disease in a crowded area.
- throwanem 7y agoYou can just as effectively, maybe more effectively, self-quarantine in a dense area, and not risk any circumstance at all leading to transmission elsewhere.
- NikolaeVarius 7y agoThat describes 99.99999% of locations.
- Loughla 7y agoSo, I live in a rural area and own some acreage. While I firmly believe home prices will tank in the next year, I also firmly believe secluded property that is still accessible will see a value increase. I'm just far enough away from a city center to be inconvenient for people to just come here, but close enough that if you have a reason, it's not terrible. And I bet I have a shitload of new neighbors after this when the local 'wealthy' folks try to get out of town. Don't know what all that means, just something I've been thinking of this week.
- throwanem 7y agoProbably means it's time to start thinking about selling. You'll probably come out ahead on the deal, and rich people make the worst neighbors anyway.
- Loughla 7y agoThat's the thing, though. Out here, you don't really make choices as an individual. I mean, it's a weird balance. Lots of us live out here because we didn't want to be told what to do by a government (outside of the don't steal, don't murder sorts of laws). Some of my neighbors moved out here after living under an HOA and getting pissed off. But when it comes to something like selling the property to someone from outside, or moving and leaving a place empty, that is always discussed in the community. It's like a weird family made of distant cousins. You don't want to leave them with shitty neighbors, but you also don't want them bothering you. Country living is odd.
- throwanem 7y agoOh, no doubt. I grew up that way and there's a good deal I still miss about it, for all that I appreciate city conveniences. But if you're getting new rich neighbors, one assumes you're not considering selling in a vacuum, either. And my experience has been that the loose communality you describe is far from immune to the influence of a lot of money. One of my own distant cousins sold a place to a developer a few years back, without consulting anyone, that'd been in the family for four generations. Even those relations most infuriated by the sale eventually had to concede that, for the just shy of a million the developer paid her, they'd have done the same.
- arethuza 7y agoThe Scottish Government was pretty blunt: “Let me be crystal clear – people should not be travelling to rural and island communities, full stop. They are endangering lives. Do not travel.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/21/scottish-government-furious-at-travellers-to-highlands-and-islands https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/21/scottish-gover... I believe subsequently there were restrictions introduced so that only local could travel out on ferries from the mainland - which seems pretty sensible to me. Edit: I live fairly close to one of the main roads north to the Highlands - the last time I filled my car with petrol a couple of weeks back it was very noticeable that there were a lot of people in campers and with caravans heading north with their families.
- growlist 7y agoI don't think either side comes out of this well. Rich folk fleeing to their hideaways belies a kind of sociopathic contempt for the plight of their fellow humans, who are indeed often the people they rely on for their livelihood. But then the people from these communities are often quite happy to sell up and pocket the London money being offered them for property, and often also to reap the benefits of ever-increasing numbers of tourists, so it does seem to me a little like some of the people in these communities are trying to have their cake and eat it - and the 'outsiders go home!' attitude being voiced isn't pretty. In other circumstances the left-wing media, Twitter etc. would be screaming blue murder about narrow-minded xenophobia.
- PeterStuer 7y agoYou do realize those are not the same people? It's core capitalism, those that reap the concentrated benefits (pocket the money) dump the negative externalities on the community (viral infections).
- raesene9 7y agoIn Scotland at least, the "outsiders go home" mentality is largely rooted in concern about level of resources available in the area to deal with Covid-19 cases. The highlands region in scotland (which has ~300k people not counting temporary residents) had < 20 beds and ventilators suitable for people suffering serious cases. There's also long distances to anything resembling a hospital and few general practitioners. The simple fact is that cities, which have most of the people, are best suited to treating people and if a load of cases start coming up in places like the highlands, it will very quickly overwhelm the limited resources available.
- _curious_ 7y agoWas actually thinking about this scenario whereby the US becomes divided between those CV19 pos vs. neg. Or insert whatever the next major pandemic will be.
- thinkingemote 7y agoI think we will see the next genuine counter culture formed because of this. It's most likely to be young people and what's amusing is that we will be the squares this time around!
- m4rtink 7y agoIn my hometown, like in many central European towns is a plague column, commemorating a deadly plague epidemics that happened in the 17th century. The story goes that it was caused by the Habsburg royal court fleeing the plague from Vienna & staying in the town for a few days before continuing onward. Of course there were some people already infected in the royal court, the infection spread to the town people as well and many died. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_and_Holy_Trinity_columns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_and_Holy_Trinity_column...
- op03 7y agoThe Thai king with an entourage, has moved to some German town and rented out a whole hotel. And the claim is members of the entourage that tested positive were sent back to Thailand.
- yardie 7y agoI have some friends currently cruising on a boat. They are stuck. The island is on lockdown so they can’t leave for another destination, can’t leave the boat because they are quarantined. And can’t even resupply because they aren’t clear to land. They have provisions for a few weeks, can make their own water and electricity. But once the former runs out they aren’t sure what they are going to do. It was a reminder that even when you are at sea you are still dependent on those ground based resources no matter where you are.
- m4rtink 7y agoI guess they should start lerning ocean fishing. Like, seriously. The biggest issue for shipwreck survivors has always been drinking water and exposure. Looks like they don't have a problem with either, so as long as they can catch some edible fish they should be fine in principle.
- dreen 7y agoThis is stupid on so many levels. Not only you're potentially spreading the virus further but you're now in a place from which it is difficult to get to a hospital if you do need it.
- panzagl 7y agoThere's a reason Colorado's highest number of cases per capita are in the mountain counties, and it has nothing to do with the locals.
- cafard 7y agoThere is an item in today's Washington Post opinion page by a commissioner of Tillamook County, Oregon, complaining of just this.