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Posted this two days ago but it was flagged, maybe now it won’t be? https://medium.com/@thejanellemj/please-join-me-in-wearing-a-mask-71e0e3f4fe4a https://medi

by erentz 7y ago

Posted this two days ago but it was flagged, maybe now it won’t be? https://medium.com/@thejanellemj/please-join-me-in-wearing-a-mask-71e0e3f4fe4a https://medium.com/@thejanellemj/please-join-me-in-wearing-a... We have made a big stumble in the US by falsely claiming masks don’t work, seemingly for political reasons. If we can get mask production in place and made available to the public it will help us ease our lock down restrictions which is something we all want to do. We are starting from so far behind so I don’t know if that’s possible now, but we should all be honest and factual, so we can develop solutions and innovate.

hintymad 7y ago
It's really a simple logic: it's hard to enforce strict social distance, and it is hard to know if someone, even myself, is contagious. And there are so many uncertainties. What if I was contagious, and sneezed when someone is in front of me but 6 feet away? What if someone beside me thought Covid-19 was just another type of flu and couldn't care less even though she was already symptomatic? Really, weakness and ignorance are not barriers of survival. Arrogance is.
nohat 7y ago
HN has been pretty hostile to the idea. I submitted Jeremy Howards video and research collation, and got a single borderline insulting comment. Unfortunately people have largely made up their minds thanks to the plethora of attacks on masks. moral "Your stealing them from healthcare" (lots of people have a couple old masks, or can make one from a t-shirt) paternalistic "You'll go do stupid stuff if you have a mask" (Exactly why we shouldn't have people wash their hands) ridiculous "You'll touch the mask and get it on your hands" (Is that worse than inhaling it? Plus it physically prevents you from touching you mouth or nose, which is the real danger.) insulting "You can't possibly wear a mask correctly" (and why can't we figure that out? Plus it still helps both for protecting other people and ourselves. If something doesn't work perfectly then we shouldn't do anything at all?) just false "it doesn't work" (except in asian countries and for healthcare workers, and in studies, and in common sense)
- yread 7y ago
  I agree that wearing a mask is a good idea but I think the risk is that as you breath or cough through a cloth mask it very quickly becomes wet and saturated with virus particles (if you're sick) and then every breath you exhale goes through a sieve full of virus particles greatly increasing the number of droplets in it. If you touch it, you touch a reservoir of virus particles. And it probably doesn't protect you significantly from other people's droplets or airborne virus particles as they are too small for the holes in the fabric. On the other hand even if it reduces the risk 20% it still helps to reduce the R0
  - xref 7y ago
    If you’re coughing enough to “very quickly saturate” a cloth mask into a sopping wet rag...don’t go out.
  - roenxi 7y ago
    If you can slow down the speed of the water particles the virus is traveling on that will presumably have a positive effect. Speaking in a 'might help' frame of mind; directing the force of the cough down towards the ground so the virus settles is probably a pretty decent mitigation. Virus on the foot is a lot less likely to infect someone vs virus coughed into their face. We're not dealing with a parasite; viruses can't move unless we move them.
  - l_davis 7y ago
    If you are going out for an extended period of time, carry an extra mask with you so you can change it if it gets wet.
  - vincentmarle 7y ago
    > breath or cough through a cloth mask it very quickly becomes wet and saturated with virus particles The alternative is to breathe or cough your virus particles in open-air? That doesn’t make sense.
- koheripbal 7y ago
  ...and experts in the field have been withholding evidence that masks are effective to protect their peers from mask shortages. https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-special-lipkin/ https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-special-lipkin/ timestamp: 33:30
service_bus 7y ago
It's not just the US, the WHO is trying to tell people not to use masks unless they are sick or caring for someone that is. It's irresponsibility on a massive scale. https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/30/world/coronavirus-who-masks-recommendation-trnd/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/30/world/coronavirus-who-mas... Obviously frontline workers need priority for PPE, but there is zero reason this should stop anyone from making something homemade.
koheripbal 7y ago
It wasn't just political reasons. There were experts in the field that were spreading misleading information so as not to cause a shortage of masks for healthcare professionals. One of the leading Epidemiologists, Ian Lipkin, admitted exactly this on the poscast This Week in Virology this week - https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-special-lipkin/ https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-special-lipkin/ at timestamp ~33:30.

by erentz 7y ago

hintymad 7y ago

It's really a simple logic: it's hard to enforce strict social distance, and it is hard to know if someone, even myself, is contagious. And there are so many uncertainties. What if I was contagious, and sneezed when someone is in front of me but 6 feet away? What if someone beside me thought Covid-19 was just another type of flu and couldn't care less even though she was already symptomatic? Really, weakness and ignorance are not barriers of survival. Arrogance is.

nohat 7y ago

HN has been pretty hostile to the idea. I submitted Jeremy Howards video and research collation, and got a single borderline insulting comment. Unfortunately people have largely made up their minds thanks to the plethora of attacks on masks. moral "Your stealing them from healthcare" (lots of people have a couple old masks, or can make one from a t-shirt) paternalistic "You'll go do stupid stuff if you have a mask" (Exactly why we shouldn't have people wash their hands) ridiculous "You'll touch the mask and get it on your hands" (Is that worse than inhaling it? Plus it physically prevents you from touching you mouth or nose, which is the real danger.) insulting "You can't possibly wear a mask correctly" (and why can't we figure that out? Plus it still helps both for protecting other people and ourselves. If something doesn't work perfectly then we shouldn't do anything at all?) just false "it doesn't work" (except in asian countries and for healthcare workers, and in studies, and in common sense)

yread 7y ago
I agree that wearing a mask is a good idea but I think the risk is that as you breath or cough through a cloth mask it very quickly becomes wet and saturated with virus particles (if you're sick) and then every breath you exhale goes through a sieve full of virus particles greatly increasing the number of droplets in it. If you touch it, you touch a reservoir of virus particles. And it probably doesn't protect you significantly from other people's droplets or airborne virus particles as they are too small for the holes in the fabric. On the other hand even if it reduces the risk 20% it still helps to reduce the R0
- xref 7y ago
  If you’re coughing enough to “very quickly saturate” a cloth mask into a sopping wet rag...don’t go out.
- roenxi 7y ago
  If you can slow down the speed of the water particles the virus is traveling on that will presumably have a positive effect. Speaking in a 'might help' frame of mind; directing the force of the cough down towards the ground so the virus settles is probably a pretty decent mitigation. Virus on the foot is a lot less likely to infect someone vs virus coughed into their face. We're not dealing with a parasite; viruses can't move unless we move them.
- l_davis 7y ago
  If you are going out for an extended period of time, carry an extra mask with you so you can change it if it gets wet.
- vincentmarle 7y ago
  > breath or cough through a cloth mask it very quickly becomes wet and saturated with virus particles The alternative is to breathe or cough your virus particles in open-air? That doesn’t make sense.
koheripbal 7y ago
...and experts in the field have been withholding evidence that masks are effective to protect their peers from mask shortages. https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-special-lipkin/ https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-special-lipkin/ timestamp: 33:30

service_bus 7y ago

It's not just the US, the WHO is trying to tell people not to use masks unless they are sick or caring for someone that is. It's irresponsibility on a massive scale. https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/30/world/coronavirus-who-masks-recommendation-trnd/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/30/world/coronavirus-who-mas... Obviously frontline workers need priority for PPE, but there is zero reason this should stop anyone from making something homemade.

koheripbal 7y ago

It wasn't just political reasons. There were experts in the field that were spreading misleading information so as not to cause a shortage of masks for healthcare professionals. One of the leading Epidemiologists, Ian Lipkin, admitted exactly this on the poscast This Week in Virology this week - https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-special-lipkin/ https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-special-lipkin/ at timestamp ~33:30.