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Copying a digital book incurs no material cost. You could charge for the bandwidth to download it from you, or you could charge for paper books, but it's ridicu

Copying a digital book incurs no material cost. You could charge for the bandwidth to download it from you, or you could charge for paper books, but it's ridiculous to me that you should be able to charge someone else for copying data from their hard drive to my hard drive. People have to eat, but having to sell books just to put food on the table is also obscene. Food is a basic human right and should never be staked on whether or not you can successfully sue your audience. Alternatively, you could simply ask your audience to support you financially, which is how I make a substantial amount of my own income. Digital books are not paper books. They are fundamentally different things. Paper books are scarce, digital books are not. Information is not scarce.

geofft 7y ago
Again - if that argument holds up, why is it reasonable to sell paper books for significantly more than the cost of reproduction? What's magical about the $0 price point? If it costs $5 to print a physical copy and you're okay with stores selling copies for $25, why is it a problem for stores to sell e-books for $20? In the pre-e-book world, libraries could always copy books on their own. They could say, we're buying one copy of this book at $25, and then we'll print another thousand copies ourselves at $5 each and sell them to other libraries. Quality might have been lower, but it would have gotten books into the hands of more people, right? Why didn't they? > People have to eat, but having to sell books just to put food on the table is also obscene. Food is a basic human right and should never be staked on whether or not you can successfully sue your audience. I don't disagree. But that's not the world we live in. Food shouldn't be staked on that, but it is. Let's solve that first, and then we can start taking people's livelihoods away. This is kind of like saying "Tipping is an unjust and evil and stupid system, so I'm not going to tip." Yes, it is an unjust and evil and stupid system - but the practical effect of not tipping is nothing more than underpaying people who, for better or worse, rely on that unjust and evil and stupid system. Fix the system first (e.g., petition your favorite restaurant to raise prices and have a no-tipping policy, and patronize those that have already done that), then you can stop tipping without hurting people
- ddevault 7y ago
  >Again - if that argument holds up, why is it reasonable to sell paper books for significantly more than the cost of reproduction? What's magical about the $0 price point? If it costs $5 to print a physical copy and you're okay with stores selling copies for $25, why is it a problem for stores to sell e-books for $20? You can sell them for whatever people will pay for them. You can sell the bandwidth for the eBook for whatever people will pay. >In the pre-e-book world, libraries could always copy books on their own. They could say, we're buying one copy of this book at $25, and then we'll print another thousand copies ourselves at $5 each and sell them to other libraries. Quality might have been lower, but it would have gotten books into the hands of more people, right? Why didn't they? Because of the same broken copyright system which is going to have lawyers burning down the doors of archive.org once they're allowed to leave their caves post-coronavirus. They should be copying these books and sending them to other libraries for a fraction of the cost. >I don't disagree. But that's not the world we live in. Food shouldn't be staked on that, but it is. Let's solve that first, and then we can start taking people's livelihoods away. I didn't suggest we immediately transition to a copyright free world. I said "screw copyright". And, for the record, we are already in a world where this works. Thousands of content creators in all fields of media are making a living based on crowdsourced funding and free distribution of content to their audience. This model has been consistently growing and doesn't show any signs of slowing down. A lot of people are making more money with this model than they would be with traditional publishing and suing everyone who coughs on their book and lets someone else look at the tissue. Hell - all businesses face the risk of needing to pivot. Same holds true for authors. If the current approach isn't working because people are sharing your books, then you need to change your approach.
  - geofft 7y ago
    > I didn't suggest we immediately transition to a copyright free world. True, you didn't say that - but that's kind of what the Internet Archive is doing. I'm definitely in agreement with the position that we should work towards a world where a lending library like they're running is both ethical and legal. I don't think the Internet Archive unilaterally running such a library is a measurable step towards that world, and it also seems to have made a bunch of people who previously only cared about their copyrights in theory (because piracy wasn't significant and so they didn't actually ever think about suits or lawyers) start caring about them in practice, which seems strategically like it gets us farther fro that world. Re crowdsourced funding - yes, it's very promising and I'm excited about it, but I'm a little hesitant of extrapolating to it making copyright irrelevant. A number of people who produce creative works under Patreon-style models still rely on copyright: they produce works that are available only to paying subscribers, and people who say "this is a zero-marginal-cost product, so I can duplicate it" undermine their ability to get subscribers. Or, in other words, there are some creators who are funded by enthusiastic supporters who would pay either way, and there are some creators who are funded by customers who are still paying to get access to zero-marginal-cost products (except that the mechanics of how they pay is a little different), and these look very similar from the outside. I'm genuinely glad and excited that the model of enthusiasts funding free software development is working for many people (including you), but free software has historically worked on models different from how book/music/article/video/etc. production has worked. For instance, it's already pretty well established (by Red Hat) that you can make a successful free software company by charging for support. I don't think we've figured out what the equivalent of "charge for support" is for, say, books.

geofft 7y ago

Again - if that argument holds up, why is it reasonable to sell paper books for significantly more than the cost of reproduction? What's magical about the $0 price point? If it costs $5 to print a physical copy and you're okay with stores selling copies for $25, why is it a problem for stores to sell e-books for $20? In the pre-e-book world, libraries could always copy books on their own. They could say, we're buying one copy of this book at $25, and then we'll print another thousand copies ourselves at $5 each and sell them to other libraries. Quality might have been lower, but it would have gotten books into the hands of more people, right? Why didn't they? > People have to eat, but having to sell books just to put food on the table is also obscene. Food is a basic human right and should never be staked on whether or not you can successfully sue your audience. I don't disagree. But that's not the world we live in. Food shouldn't be staked on that, but it is. Let's solve that first, and then we can start taking people's livelihoods away. This is kind of like saying "Tipping is an unjust and evil and stupid system, so I'm not going to tip." Yes, it is an unjust and evil and stupid system - but the practical effect of not tipping is nothing more than underpaying people who, for better or worse, rely on that unjust and evil and stupid system. Fix the system first (e.g., petition your favorite restaurant to raise prices and have a no-tipping policy, and patronize those that have already done that), then you can stop tipping without hurting people

ddevault 7y ago
>Again - if that argument holds up, why is it reasonable to sell paper books for significantly more than the cost of reproduction? What's magical about the $0 price point? If it costs $5 to print a physical copy and you're okay with stores selling copies for $25, why is it a problem for stores to sell e-books for $20? You can sell them for whatever people will pay for them. You can sell the bandwidth for the eBook for whatever people will pay. >In the pre-e-book world, libraries could always copy books on their own. They could say, we're buying one copy of this book at $25, and then we'll print another thousand copies ourselves at $5 each and sell them to other libraries. Quality might have been lower, but it would have gotten books into the hands of more people, right? Why didn't they? Because of the same broken copyright system which is going to have lawyers burning down the doors of archive.org once they're allowed to leave their caves post-coronavirus. They should be copying these books and sending them to other libraries for a fraction of the cost. >I don't disagree. But that's not the world we live in. Food shouldn't be staked on that, but it is. Let's solve that first, and then we can start taking people's livelihoods away. I didn't suggest we immediately transition to a copyright free world. I said "screw copyright". And, for the record, we are already in a world where this works. Thousands of content creators in all fields of media are making a living based on crowdsourced funding and free distribution of content to their audience. This model has been consistently growing and doesn't show any signs of slowing down. A lot of people are making more money with this model than they would be with traditional publishing and suing everyone who coughs on their book and lets someone else look at the tissue. Hell - all businesses face the risk of needing to pivot. Same holds true for authors. If the current approach isn't working because people are sharing your books, then you need to change your approach.
- geofft 7y ago
  > I didn't suggest we immediately transition to a copyright free world. True, you didn't say that - but that's kind of what the Internet Archive is doing. I'm definitely in agreement with the position that we should work towards a world where a lending library like they're running is both ethical and legal. I don't think the Internet Archive unilaterally running such a library is a measurable step towards that world, and it also seems to have made a bunch of people who previously only cared about their copyrights in theory (because piracy wasn't significant and so they didn't actually ever think about suits or lawyers) start caring about them in practice, which seems strategically like it gets us farther fro that world. Re crowdsourced funding - yes, it's very promising and I'm excited about it, but I'm a little hesitant of extrapolating to it making copyright irrelevant. A number of people who produce creative works under Patreon-style models still rely on copyright: they produce works that are available only to paying subscribers, and people who say "this is a zero-marginal-cost product, so I can duplicate it" undermine their ability to get subscribers. Or, in other words, there are some creators who are funded by enthusiastic supporters who would pay either way, and there are some creators who are funded by customers who are still paying to get access to zero-marginal-cost products (except that the mechanics of how they pay is a little different), and these look very similar from the outside. I'm genuinely glad and excited that the model of enthusiasts funding free software development is working for many people (including you), but free software has historically worked on models different from how book/music/article/video/etc. production has worked. For instance, it's already pretty well established (by Red Hat) that you can make a successful free software company by charging for support. I don't think we've figured out what the equivalent of "charge for support" is for, say, books.