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There is a similar technique in Chinese baking called tangzhong. That is indeed the pinyin of 湯種. I doubt there's enough evidence to determine if it was a Japa
by thebooktocome 7y ago
There is a similar technique in Chinese baking called tangzhong. That is indeed the pinyin of 湯種.
I doubt there's enough evidence to determine if it was a Japanese or Chinese invention. Either name is acceptable.
- fermienrico 7y ago> Either name is acceptable Not when the origin is mixed up. If the article said "Chinese technique of Tangzhong" or the "Japanese technique of Yudane", then its fine. The person you're replying to is talking about the mix up of the origin. No one is talking about who came first.
- dnautics 7y agoI mean jeez, at that rate we shouldn't be calling it "Japanese" in the first place, because "Japan" is a chinese word, not a Japanese word.
- carapace 7y agoWell, yeah, it's Nippon right?
- ddrt 7y agoNihon
- fermienrico 7y agoI honestly have no interest in this topic - just simply pointing out the logical error and diversion of the reply.
- ddrt 7y agoIt’s interesting that Japan didn’t have a writing system and China didn’t have a name. Then Japan adopted Chinese writing system and Japan gave them a name. Weird.
- kazinator 7y agoI did in fact posit a hypothesis about the origin. According to one Chinese dictionary, 湯種 is in fact originally yudane, coming into Chinese as a loan-word (using a Chinese reading). By the way, that is not unusual. In fact Chinese uses exonyms for Japanese names and places based on re-reading the kanji spelling in Chinese. Let me pick something at random: 箱根, Hakone: a place name made from "hako" (box) and "ne" (root). Checking in a Chinese dictionary, we have a hit: https://www.mdbg.net/chinese/dictionary?page=worddict&wdrst=1&wdqb=%E7%AE%B1%E6%A0%B9+ https://www.mdbg.net/chinese/dictionary?page=worddict&wdrst=... It's called Xiānggēn in Chinese.
- fermienrico 7y agoYour entire central point was addressing - "Japanese technique of Tangzhong", wasn't it?
- numpad0 7y agoChinese speaking people are stubborn(from my point of view) about reading Hanzi/Kanji in their sounds, so landmarks in Chinese pronunciation aren't really loanwords. It's like someone sees "хорошо" and pronounce it "soppovo" because that has to be correct to them, but that's their thing(both ways) and it's not practical for single person to keep up with every pronunciations of Hanzi derivatives anyways so people just read the way they perceive. Which, I think, also means a Japanese word in a Chinese dictionary is not an implication of acceptance as a loanword since that process is very deterministic.
- kazinator 7y ago> aren't really loanwords Place names aren't loanwords, which is why I called them "exonyms": foreign names for places that differ from their local names. E.g. Japan is an exonym for Nihon.
- dheera 7y agoPlot twist: Actually, the word "Japan" is thought to come originally from an earlier Wu dialect of Chinese pronounciation of "日本". In modern Shanghainese, it's roughly "Zeppen".
- dheera 7y agoMeh. We say "Chinese tofu dish" but "tofu" is the Japanese transliteration.