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The internet amplifies reputational risk. My guess is that if HBGary has any future they will at the very minimum have to change their company name. Reading s

by motters 16y ago

The internet amplifies reputational risk. My guess is that if HBGary has any future they will at the very minimum have to change their company name. Reading some of the leaked emails provides (at least for me) a shocking insight into the dark side of the internet and how social networks can be abused for sinister purposes. Assuming HBGary isn't the only company involved in these sorts of machinations it raises some really big and serious questions about the future of democracy and the ability of governments to create fake consensus using "persona management software".

InclinedPlane 16y ago
The power of publicity (both negative and positive) is now in the hands of everyone not just the hands of powerful institutions such as the traditional press or the government. Wikileaks and anonymous' hijinx are just one example of the brave new world we're entering, it'll be fascinating to see how it will play out.
stcredzero 16y ago
My hunch is that this very social network and its close cousin reddit are being manipulated by groups following discordian ideologies. In short, it's being manipulated for fun and "profit." ("Profit" in the form of media-manipulation capability.) In other words, it's being manipulated for the LULZ. (By people who don't know how to analyze what they read and argue cogently.) The flavor of logic and discourse on this site has taken a definite turn for the worse. Nonsensical and somewhat juvenile reactions to my comments occur with frightening regularity. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2270002 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2270002
- khafra 16y ago
  By "Discordian," I'm thinking you mean the TAZ-theory and other stuff from RAW's other work, not so much the carefree pranksterism of the Principia Discordia, right? Either way, it's a model for which I hold such a low prior probability that it would take a lot of evidence to convince me, but the latter seems to have more internal consistency. As for your link, people thought you were talking about the overreaching of the Tolkien estate; you were talking about what appeared to be a button taking sides in an imaginary cultural divide. Simple miscommunication.
  - stcredzero 16y ago
    If I was talking about the estate, why would I be mentioning Evangelion?
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
    - joel_ms 16y ago
      You did start the comment with "My reaction is: so?", a statement seemingly directed at the actual content of the article, not the (largely irrelevant in the context of the article) content of the button. People got confused by your somewhat unclear (at least to some people), off-topic comment, and you started ranting about people not using their brains, lacking reading comprehension, being lazy and small-minded. Wouldn't it suffice to point out that you were commenting on the content of the button, without attacking the people confused by the comment?
      - stcredzero 16y ago
        People got confused by your somewhat unclear (at least to some people), off-topic comment What actually happened: People read the first line, jumped to a conclusion, and further reading/brain activity was a fail. I think it speaks volumes when you have to comment with this level of "tl;dr" mentality in mind. I did not have to do that in days past. I long for the days when I could simply express thoughts needing 3 or more sentences for complete expression on HN. This used to be the big advantage of commenting in text over speaking. Now, I have to treat the first line of each comment like a headline, because the pool of readers has already jumped to a conclusion.
        jokermatt999 16y ago
        It's up to the writer to communicate their thoughts clearly. A writer should only blame their audience for not understanding if their statements are obviously unambiguous. However, you were writing on an online forum about a topic that was only tangentially related to the subject, began your post with an inflammatory statement, never clearly stated what you were even talking about, and then blamed the lack of comprehension on the other end. If you're communicating in text to strangers, it's best to err on the side of being overly specific, especially when speaking about a different topic than the one being currently discussed. Sorry if this comes off as harsh, but people blaming their poor communication on others is a pet peeve of mine.
- motters 16y ago
  I don't know anything about LULZ, but given the content of the HBGary emails it's entirely possible that "personas" are deployed on this and other noteworthy forums, in accordance with their rent-a-bot business model. However, at least on HN it would be difficult for these to be "botted out", due to the usually higher quality commenting, although voting up "noisy" submissions could degrade the overall quality.
  - stcredzero 16y ago
    I don't know anything about LULZ, but given the content of the HBGary emails it's entirely possible that "personas" are deployed on this and other noteworthy forums Such bot sockpuppet swarms had been around for years before HBGary Federal ever tried to sell them to corporations and the government. on HN it would be difficult for these to be "botted out", due to the usually higher quality commenting You don't need that much commenting to manipulate HN. Just getting karma up to the point of being able to submit on a number of accounts is enough to enable a lot of manipulation. Being able to recruit 20 or so college aged users for a several days would be enough to get you started. Increasing the speed of submissions past a certain point reduces the influence of the established population and increases the power of voting cabals.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
jrockway 16y ago
Their "personas" didn't do a very good job.

by motters 16y ago

InclinedPlane 16y ago

The power of publicity (both negative and positive) is now in the hands of everyone not just the hands of powerful institutions such as the traditional press or the government. Wikileaks and anonymous' hijinx are just one example of the brave new world we're entering, it'll be fascinating to see how it will play out.

stcredzero 16y ago

My hunch is that this very social network and its close cousin reddit are being manipulated by groups following discordian ideologies. In short, it's being manipulated for fun and "profit." ("Profit" in the form of media-manipulation capability.) In other words, it's being manipulated for the LULZ. (By people who don't know how to analyze what they read and argue cogently.) The flavor of logic and discourse on this site has taken a definite turn for the worse. Nonsensical and somewhat juvenile reactions to my comments occur with frightening regularity. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2270002 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2270002

khafra 16y ago
By "Discordian," I'm thinking you mean the TAZ-theory and other stuff from RAW's other work, not so much the carefree pranksterism of the Principia Discordia, right? Either way, it's a model for which I hold such a low prior probability that it would take a lot of evidence to convince me, but the latter seems to have more internal consistency. As for your link, people thought you were talking about the overreaching of the Tolkien estate; you were talking about what appeared to be a button taking sides in an imaginary cultural divide. Simple miscommunication.
- stcredzero 16y ago
  If I was talking about the estate, why would I be mentioning Evangelion?
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - joel_ms 16y ago
    You did start the comment with "My reaction is: so?", a statement seemingly directed at the actual content of the article, not the (largely irrelevant in the context of the article) content of the button. People got confused by your somewhat unclear (at least to some people), off-topic comment, and you started ranting about people not using their brains, lacking reading comprehension, being lazy and small-minded. Wouldn't it suffice to point out that you were commenting on the content of the button, without attacking the people confused by the comment?
    - stcredzero 16y ago
      People got confused by your somewhat unclear (at least to some people), off-topic comment What actually happened: People read the first line, jumped to a conclusion, and further reading/brain activity was a fail. I think it speaks volumes when you have to comment with this level of "tl;dr" mentality in mind. I did not have to do that in days past. I long for the days when I could simply express thoughts needing 3 or more sentences for complete expression on HN. This used to be the big advantage of commenting in text over speaking. Now, I have to treat the first line of each comment like a headline, because the pool of readers has already jumped to a conclusion.
      - jokermatt999 16y ago
        It's up to the writer to communicate their thoughts clearly. A writer should only blame their audience for not understanding if their statements are obviously unambiguous. However, you were writing on an online forum about a topic that was only tangentially related to the subject, began your post with an inflammatory statement, never clearly stated what you were even talking about, and then blamed the lack of comprehension on the other end. If you're communicating in text to strangers, it's best to err on the side of being overly specific, especially when speaking about a different topic than the one being currently discussed. Sorry if this comes off as harsh, but people blaming their poor communication on others is a pet peeve of mine.
motters 16y ago
I don't know anything about LULZ, but given the content of the HBGary emails it's entirely possible that "personas" are deployed on this and other noteworthy forums, in accordance with their rent-a-bot business model. However, at least on HN it would be difficult for these to be "botted out", due to the usually higher quality commenting, although voting up "noisy" submissions could degrade the overall quality.
- stcredzero 16y ago
  I don't know anything about LULZ, but given the content of the HBGary emails it's entirely possible that "personas" are deployed on this and other noteworthy forums Such bot sockpuppet swarms had been around for years before HBGary Federal ever tried to sell them to corporations and the government. on HN it would be difficult for these to be "botted out", due to the usually higher quality commenting You don't need that much commenting to manipulate HN. Just getting karma up to the point of being able to submit on a number of accounts is enough to enable a lot of manipulation. Being able to recruit 20 or so college aged users for a several days would be enough to get you started. Increasing the speed of submissions past a certain point reduces the influence of the established population and increases the power of voting cabals.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

jrockway 16y ago

Their "personas" didn't do a very good job.