6 ms·

The time to oppose Orban would have been a few years ago. I'd like to think the EU would take strong action over this, but the unanimity requirements for situat

by cultus 7y ago

The time to oppose Orban would have been a few years ago. I'd like to think the EU would take strong action over this, but the unanimity requirements for situations like this make it a total non-starter. The EU structure greatly reminds me of the weak Articles of Confederation adopted after the American Revolution (to be abandoned after a few years for a stronger federal government with the Constitution). It just doesn't work to have all sovereignty vested in constituent members of a government.

pjc50 7y ago
On the other hand, that level of centralisation of soverignty isn't popular.
- saiya-jin 7y ago
  In the eastern part of EU, there are plenty of states including my own which were centrally planned during communism, and people have strong negative emotions towards that, for some good reasons. It just didn't work very well, and once performant economies were brought on the level of 3rd world counterparts simply by bad long term management over 40 years. One example - Czechoslovakia had at the end of the WWII more performant economy overall than Austria. After 40 years, I recall first trip there - it felt so surreal. The country was spot clean, maintained, highly developed, shops were full of quality wares we couldn't dream of (say bananas and oranges, meat looked so much more tasty and so on). We could barely afford going to the public toilet in the center. I am sure it could be theoretically done better, but I can't imagine it done well back home.
bobthechef 7y ago
See, that's the issue. The federalist project is not only doomed, but foolish. It never had a chance. You cannot compare the US, a country that grew out of a founding nucleus and produced the states that compose it as it expanded with an attempt to fuse together almost 30 nation states speaking a number of different languages, affected by different geopolitical pressures and concerns, with their own histories, etc, etc, into some federal entity where magically a Frenchman will view the good of a Croatian with equal priority. It won't happen and it's unnatural. You can't strap reality into some preconceived Procrustean bed and torture it into assuming the shape you want it to assume (the new Soviet man anyone?). Not only is it psychopathic in intent, but it won't work. When the seas are calm, we might be able to blandly pretend that we're a happy family, but every crisis in the EU merely shatters those pretensions of the true believers. The 2008 financial crisis, the migrant crisis, the Greek debt crisis, the energy solidarity debacles, etc, etc, etc, and now the coronavirus and soon the resulting economic recession. Each blow will demonstrate the farce that the federal project is. It is much more sane to begin with the truth and to respect it. Only then, in light of the facts, can we begin to speak of the possibility of a workable cooperation between nations instead of trying to will arbitrary things into existence in some quixotic and destructive endeavor. All it does is conceal the injustices that occur under the veneer of "unity".

by cultus 7y ago

pjc50 7y ago

On the other hand, that level of centralisation of soverignty isn't popular.

saiya-jin 7y ago
In the eastern part of EU, there are plenty of states including my own which were centrally planned during communism, and people have strong negative emotions towards that, for some good reasons. It just didn't work very well, and once performant economies were brought on the level of 3rd world counterparts simply by bad long term management over 40 years. One example - Czechoslovakia had at the end of the WWII more performant economy overall than Austria. After 40 years, I recall first trip there - it felt so surreal. The country was spot clean, maintained, highly developed, shops were full of quality wares we couldn't dream of (say bananas and oranges, meat looked so much more tasty and so on). We could barely afford going to the public toilet in the center. I am sure it could be theoretically done better, but I can't imagine it done well back home.

bobthechef 7y ago

See, that's the issue. The federalist project is not only doomed, but foolish. It never had a chance. You cannot compare the US, a country that grew out of a founding nucleus and produced the states that compose it as it expanded with an attempt to fuse together almost 30 nation states speaking a number of different languages, affected by different geopolitical pressures and concerns, with their own histories, etc, etc, into some federal entity where magically a Frenchman will view the good of a Croatian with equal priority. It won't happen and it's unnatural. You can't strap reality into some preconceived Procrustean bed and torture it into assuming the shape you want it to assume (the new Soviet man anyone?). Not only is it psychopathic in intent, but it won't work. When the seas are calm, we might be able to blandly pretend that we're a happy family, but every crisis in the EU merely shatters those pretensions of the true believers. The 2008 financial crisis, the migrant crisis, the Greek debt crisis, the energy solidarity debacles, etc, etc, etc, and now the coronavirus and soon the resulting economic recession. Each blow will demonstrate the farce that the federal project is. It is much more sane to begin with the truth and to respect it. Only then, in light of the facts, can we begin to speak of the possibility of a workable cooperation between nations instead of trying to will arbitrary things into existence in some quixotic and destructive endeavor. All it does is conceal the injustices that occur under the veneer of "unity".