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I don't deal in speculation and rumours sorry. The 2-3% assuming you have medical treatment has held true. The 10+% hospitalization has held true. The lack of

by tensor 7y ago

I don't deal in speculation and rumours sorry. The 2-3% assuming you have medical treatment has held true. The 10+% hospitalization has held true. The lack of response from the US is in no way due to China's reporting, it's due to the US propaganda and incompetence.

viklove 7y ago
> I don't deal in speculation and rumours sorry. But you trust a known liar (the Chinese government)? Sounds like you're a bit biased here. > US propaganda So the US spreads propaganda, but not China? I don't understand how an educated individual could spout this nonsense anywhere. edit: Am I getting downvotes because HN thinks the Chinese government doesn't have a history of lying? Anyone remember Tiananmen Square, the country of Taiwan, the country of Tibet, or the Uyghur Muslims?
- mikem170 7y ago
  Both the U.S. and China spread propaganda. Both governments do bad things. Both do good things. The world is not black and white. You don't need to pit the two against each other. The world is a big place, with a varied history. We're all people.
  - gnusty_gnurc 7y ago
    The US doesn't have an Ai Fen [1] as far as I can tell. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/11/coronavirus-wuhan-doctor-ai-fen-speaks-out-against-authorities https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/11/coronavirus-wu...
- dirtyid 7y ago
  They both propagandize but people in the west are less trained to identify US propaganda than Chinese propaganda. The reverse is also true in China. Useful idiots everywhere. > an educated individual An educated individual =/= a qualified one. There are qualified experts in government with experience managing the US-China relationship. They would not fixate on Chinese statistics in an case like this. What happened in China was not opaque like secret CPC politburo meetings. It was an incredibly, transparently, urgent crisis - the country was locked down, that alone should sound louder than any statistics coming out of China in dealing with a virus we still don't have good understanding of. China's neighbors - all the countries with experiencing managing responses to movements in China, particularly SARS, acted appropriately. The US - who has/had cultivated decades of relationships with China has many back channels to privileged information most countries don't have. Also instead of fixating on numbers, fixate on indicators on the Chinese response because that's much more useful given where countries are. China is reopenning schools, factory are spinning backup according to expats, the same expats who can comment on the conditions of the quarantine are also attesting that no locals on their team contracted the virus. Look at imported statistics from countries repatriating citizens. Most Chinese imported cases are from returning students from NA and EU. Singaporean, Taiwanese and Canadian data shows similarly, there's virtually no positive tests coming out of China at the moment. Facts on the ground and external numbers comport that ridiculously aggressive Chinese quarantine works. The question should then be, what amount of half measures is sufficient.
  - iateanapple 7y ago
    > China's neighbors - all the countries with experiencing managing responses to movements in China, particularly SARS, acted appropriately. Yes, because they all knew the official narrative from China could not be trusted. They ignored the words and looked at the actions. I suspect our intelligence folk knew as well. The emotional response we are seeing all over the country is because the average person feels like an idiot for listening to China and to the experts at the WHO.
- dntbnmpls 7y ago
  > But you trust a known liar (the Chinese government)? Sounds like you're a bit biased here. All governments lie. China isn't special, no matter how desperately you want them to be. And no offense, but you seem quite biased yourself. > So the US spreads propaganda, but not China? They both do. You just seem to accept US propaganda as gospel. > Anyone remember Tiananmen Square, the country of Taiwan, the country of Tibet, or the Uyghur Muslims? What about it? Why not list the atrocities of both sides? Using your logic, nobody's data is valid. Now what? What about korea's data? They have even less deaths than predicted. Are they lying? Is Japan lying? If you have any proof, then provide it rather than posting propaganda - nationalreview, newsweek, etc. Or may I suggest taking a break from reading/watching news/propaganda for a bit. It can be toxic.

by tensor 7y ago

viklove 7y ago

> I don't deal in speculation and rumours sorry. But you trust a known liar (the Chinese government)? Sounds like you're a bit biased here. > US propaganda So the US spreads propaganda, but not China? I don't understand how an educated individual could spout this nonsense anywhere. edit: Am I getting downvotes because HN thinks the Chinese government doesn't have a history of lying? Anyone remember Tiananmen Square, the country of Taiwan, the country of Tibet, or the Uyghur Muslims?

mikem170 7y ago
Both the U.S. and China spread propaganda. Both governments do bad things. Both do good things. The world is not black and white. You don't need to pit the two against each other. The world is a big place, with a varied history. We're all people.
- gnusty_gnurc 7y ago
  The US doesn't have an Ai Fen [1] as far as I can tell. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/11/coronavirus-wuhan-doctor-ai-fen-speaks-out-against-authorities https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/11/coronavirus-wu...
dirtyid 7y ago
They both propagandize but people in the west are less trained to identify US propaganda than Chinese propaganda. The reverse is also true in China. Useful idiots everywhere. > an educated individual An educated individual =/= a qualified one. There are qualified experts in government with experience managing the US-China relationship. They would not fixate on Chinese statistics in an case like this. What happened in China was not opaque like secret CPC politburo meetings. It was an incredibly, transparently, urgent crisis - the country was locked down, that alone should sound louder than any statistics coming out of China in dealing with a virus we still don't have good understanding of. China's neighbors - all the countries with experiencing managing responses to movements in China, particularly SARS, acted appropriately. The US - who has/had cultivated decades of relationships with China has many back channels to privileged information most countries don't have. Also instead of fixating on numbers, fixate on indicators on the Chinese response because that's much more useful given where countries are. China is reopenning schools, factory are spinning backup according to expats, the same expats who can comment on the conditions of the quarantine are also attesting that no locals on their team contracted the virus. Look at imported statistics from countries repatriating citizens. Most Chinese imported cases are from returning students from NA and EU. Singaporean, Taiwanese and Canadian data shows similarly, there's virtually no positive tests coming out of China at the moment. Facts on the ground and external numbers comport that ridiculously aggressive Chinese quarantine works. The question should then be, what amount of half measures is sufficient.
- iateanapple 7y ago
  > China's neighbors - all the countries with experiencing managing responses to movements in China, particularly SARS, acted appropriately. Yes, because they all knew the official narrative from China could not be trusted. They ignored the words and looked at the actions. I suspect our intelligence folk knew as well. The emotional response we are seeing all over the country is because the average person feels like an idiot for listening to China and to the experts at the WHO.
dntbnmpls 7y ago
> But you trust a known liar (the Chinese government)? Sounds like you're a bit biased here. All governments lie. China isn't special, no matter how desperately you want them to be. And no offense, but you seem quite biased yourself. > So the US spreads propaganda, but not China? They both do. You just seem to accept US propaganda as gospel. > Anyone remember Tiananmen Square, the country of Taiwan, the country of Tibet, or the Uyghur Muslims? What about it? Why not list the atrocities of both sides? Using your logic, nobody's data is valid. Now what? What about korea's data? They have even less deaths than predicted. Are they lying? Is Japan lying? If you have any proof, then provide it rather than posting propaganda - nationalreview, newsweek, etc. Or may I suggest taking a break from reading/watching news/propaganda for a bit. It can be toxic.