7 ms·

At least they can stay on their health insurance. It’s always mind boggling that in the US you will not just lose your job when you get laid off but also your h

At least they can stay on their health insurance. It’s always mind boggling that in the US you will not just lose your job when you get laid off but also your health insurance. For a lot of people this is life threatening.

bilbo0s 7y ago
Being able to keep the health insurance is a life saver. And yes, we really need to rethink this whole, "employer bound health insurance"-thing. Maybe it made sense in the world of easy access to middle class jobs that was the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's, etc. But today things are significantly different and we haven't adapted to reflect that reality.
- pmiller2 7y ago
  More like it made sense in the early 1940's when there were wage and price controls due to WW2, and it just kinda stuck.
  - digitaltrees 7y ago
    This is an important historical fact that many people don’t know.
- danans 7y ago
  > And yes, we really need to rethink this whole, "employer bound health insurance"-thing. This may end up being the most important silver lining of the COVID19 situation. > Maybe it made sense in the world of easy access to middle class jobs that was the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's, etc. It made sense for those who could get those jobs, but US society of the 1950s-1970s was pretty selective as to to whom it availed such jobs and attached health benefits.
  - filmgirlcw 7y ago
    Yes. Although I will note that labor unions were also more powerful then, which allowed a broader class of people to have jobs that offered benefits. I don’t disagree that the system was still selective as to who had access, but the Reagan-era attack on organized labor and workers rights had sweeping, sweeping impact that continues today. The problem is that many boomers (sorry mom and dad), who had more entry-level or even middle-class jobs in the 70s and then went on to big corporate jobs in the 80s, either are unaware of this shift or are unwilling to acknowledge it happened. People say, “well when I was your age my health insurance was free or super cheap” — as if that is applicable 40+ years later. It’s similar to my uncle not understanding why someone like me, who makes well into six figures a year, has no aspirations of home ownership, not understanding that the only cities I’m willing to live don’t have housing equivalent to my rent for under $1m. He just thinks, “I bought a house at your age” — not realizing his house was $80k and even with inflation, wouldn’t be possible now. Or like how I had to explain to my mother that no, despite working for the second-most valuable company in the world (technically it has the highest market cap today), I do not have a pension. I laughed when she asked.
DoofusOfDeath 7y ago
Yes, the momentum of U.S. healthcare's structures and practices is extremely frustrating. Watching the planning and implementation of the Affordable Care Act was very disheartening. I'm genuinely curious what circumstances or events would / shall be necessary to effect large-scale improvements.
- wedowhatwedo 7y ago
  It's hard to accomplish something when half the team is paid to stop the project at any cost.
synaesthesisx 7y ago
Man, it sure would be great if we could decouple health insurance from employment like other reasonable countries. It would be a shame to literally have your existence threatened by absurd factors well outside of your control (like your employer unable to meet payroll due to a global pandemic).
- unlinked_dll 7y ago
  More small/medium sized businesses should be on board with this too. No one likes dealing with insurance companies/plans.
- kempbellt 7y ago
  Then let's do it
  - xster 7y ago
    #yang2020
    - Ididntdothis 7y ago
      Did Yang run on health care reform? Last time I read about him he was babbling about “choice” and “market” but seemed to have no real plan other than the magic of the free market. If the health care situation doesn’t change then all of UBI will be eaten up by health care soon.
      - omegaworks 7y ago
        > Did Yang run on health care reform? Marginally. His plan was basically the same as Buttigieg's: Medicare for all who want it. Of course, they never talked about how that would actually reduce your choices as employers opted to stop covering health insurance and you were stuck with the smaller Medicare provider pool. One of the big structural advantages of the real Medicare for All plan is that it would eliminate "networks" all providers would be required to accept the M4A single-payer.
      - 7y ago
heymijo 7y ago
> At least they can stay on their health insurance. FTA: At least through May
ryaan_anthony 7y ago
Only if you are fired or quit. If you are laid off, you have the option to continue your insurance at your employers discounted rate. The program is called COBRA if you want to look into it.
- PopeDotNinja 7y ago
  There's nothing discounted about COBRA. It's expensive as heck.
  - wear_a_mask 7y ago
    COBRA in California for a single, young male for me was $600-$800/month. A lease on a fuckin' Range Rover.
- ragona 7y ago
  Haha "discounted." Have you ever looked at the prices for COBRA? Cool, you just lost your job, here's a $1500/mo option.
  - pound 7y ago
    it's still technically discounted as those are group rates. Without it the same plan would cost even more for individuals.
    - filmgirlcw 7y ago
      Sure — but the point is that it isn’t a viable discount for most people who are laid off — regardless of your income level. A decade ago, when I went off my parents insurance (and before the startup I worked at offered insurance), COBRA was $1200 a month — it was more than my rent at the time. But my medication costs were $1500 or $1600 a month (primarily for an ADHD drug that was still under patent and no generic was available), so I paid it anyway. That was in part because my parents had really good insurance — and you’re paying to extend the same plan, you’re not able to negotiate for a different plan. When I last switched employers a few years ago, the COBRA amount was similarly high (I didn’t use it because my new employer had insurance but I saw the COBRA forms). Unemployment wouldn’t cover rent for many people — let alone COBRA.
Florin_Andrei 7y ago
> It’s always mind boggling that in the US you will not just lose your job when you get laid off but also your health insurance. For a lot of people this is life threatening. For a lot of people in the truly civilized countries, this is inconceivable.
dankoss 7y ago
This is not strictly true. Health insurance has always been available for purchase by individuals, and the ACA expanded access to this by providing income-based subsidies. When you lose your job, you lose access to your employer's subsidy and risk pool. That doesn't change the fact that heath insurance and healthcare is expensive, it's just pointing out that the only way most people can afford to have it is because their employer is paying for most of it. If that cost was more transparent to salaried people, it might spur a more useful conversation about how to bring down the cost of healthcare.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Loughla 7y ago
  At our institution, every staff member is required to be a part of the rotation on the benefits committee. Also, we are required (state funded institution) to send out the full cost of every staff and faculty member to them every year. When the letters go out, people open their eyes when they see the institution spent 1/3 of their salary on health insurance. You can tell when someone is on the benefits committee, because they don't complain about salaries for about 3 years.
- RandallBrown 7y ago
  Depends on the state of course, but some (Washington at least in 2017) have totally free healthcare if you have no income. It was extremely easy to sign up on the healthcare exchange. The coverage wasn't great, but it was free and better than nothing.
- pjdemers 7y ago
  >> Health insurance has always been available for purchase by individuals Not true. Before Obamacare, anyone with a pre-existing condition was excluded. "Pre-existing condition" means you ever saw a doctor more than once for the same thing. My family was denied because one of my children was in the hospital for a week AT BIRTH. She was 5 when we applied, and not been sick for a day since then.

bilbo0s 7y ago

Being able to keep the health insurance is a life saver. And yes, we really need to rethink this whole, "employer bound health insurance"-thing. Maybe it made sense in the world of easy access to middle class jobs that was the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's, etc. But today things are significantly different and we haven't adapted to reflect that reality.

pmiller2 7y ago
More like it made sense in the early 1940's when there were wage and price controls due to WW2, and it just kinda stuck.
- digitaltrees 7y ago
  This is an important historical fact that many people don’t know.
danans 7y ago
> And yes, we really need to rethink this whole, "employer bound health insurance"-thing. This may end up being the most important silver lining of the COVID19 situation. > Maybe it made sense in the world of easy access to middle class jobs that was the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's, etc. It made sense for those who could get those jobs, but US society of the 1950s-1970s was pretty selective as to to whom it availed such jobs and attached health benefits.
- filmgirlcw 7y ago
  Yes. Although I will note that labor unions were also more powerful then, which allowed a broader class of people to have jobs that offered benefits. I don’t disagree that the system was still selective as to who had access, but the Reagan-era attack on organized labor and workers rights had sweeping, sweeping impact that continues today. The problem is that many boomers (sorry mom and dad), who had more entry-level or even middle-class jobs in the 70s and then went on to big corporate jobs in the 80s, either are unaware of this shift or are unwilling to acknowledge it happened. People say, “well when I was your age my health insurance was free or super cheap” — as if that is applicable 40+ years later. It’s similar to my uncle not understanding why someone like me, who makes well into six figures a year, has no aspirations of home ownership, not understanding that the only cities I’m willing to live don’t have housing equivalent to my rent for under $1m. He just thinks, “I bought a house at your age” — not realizing his house was $80k and even with inflation, wouldn’t be possible now. Or like how I had to explain to my mother that no, despite working for the second-most valuable company in the world (technically it has the highest market cap today), I do not have a pension. I laughed when she asked.

DoofusOfDeath 7y ago

Yes, the momentum of U.S. healthcare's structures and practices is extremely frustrating. Watching the planning and implementation of the Affordable Care Act was very disheartening. I'm genuinely curious what circumstances or events would / shall be necessary to effect large-scale improvements.

wedowhatwedo 7y ago
It's hard to accomplish something when half the team is paid to stop the project at any cost.

synaesthesisx 7y ago

Man, it sure would be great if we could decouple health insurance from employment like other reasonable countries. It would be a shame to literally have your existence threatened by absurd factors well outside of your control (like your employer unable to meet payroll due to a global pandemic).

unlinked_dll 7y ago
More small/medium sized businesses should be on board with this too. No one likes dealing with insurance companies/plans.
kempbellt 7y ago
Then let's do it
- xster 7y ago
  #yang2020
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    Did Yang run on health care reform? Last time I read about him he was babbling about “choice” and “market” but seemed to have no real plan other than the magic of the free market. If the health care situation doesn’t change then all of UBI will be eaten up by health care soon.
    - omegaworks 7y ago
      > Did Yang run on health care reform? Marginally. His plan was basically the same as Buttigieg's: Medicare for all who want it. Of course, they never talked about how that would actually reduce your choices as employers opted to stop covering health insurance and you were stuck with the smaller Medicare provider pool. One of the big structural advantages of the real Medicare for All plan is that it would eliminate "networks" all providers would be required to accept the M4A single-payer.
    - 7y ago

heymijo 7y ago

> At least they can stay on their health insurance. FTA: At least through May

ryaan_anthony 7y ago

Only if you are fired or quit. If you are laid off, you have the option to continue your insurance at your employers discounted rate. The program is called COBRA if you want to look into it.

PopeDotNinja 7y ago
There's nothing discounted about COBRA. It's expensive as heck.
- wear_a_mask 7y ago
  COBRA in California for a single, young male for me was $600-$800/month. A lease on a fuckin' Range Rover.
ragona 7y ago
Haha "discounted." Have you ever looked at the prices for COBRA? Cool, you just lost your job, here's a $1500/mo option.
- pound 7y ago
  it's still technically discounted as those are group rates. Without it the same plan would cost even more for individuals.
  - filmgirlcw 7y ago
    Sure — but the point is that it isn’t a viable discount for most people who are laid off — regardless of your income level. A decade ago, when I went off my parents insurance (and before the startup I worked at offered insurance), COBRA was $1200 a month — it was more than my rent at the time. But my medication costs were $1500 or $1600 a month (primarily for an ADHD drug that was still under patent and no generic was available), so I paid it anyway. That was in part because my parents had really good insurance — and you’re paying to extend the same plan, you’re not able to negotiate for a different plan. When I last switched employers a few years ago, the COBRA amount was similarly high (I didn’t use it because my new employer had insurance but I saw the COBRA forms). Unemployment wouldn’t cover rent for many people — let alone COBRA.

Florin_Andrei 7y ago

> It’s always mind boggling that in the US you will not just lose your job when you get laid off but also your health insurance. For a lot of people this is life threatening. For a lot of people in the truly civilized countries, this is inconceivable.

dankoss 7y ago

This is not strictly true. Health insurance has always been available for purchase by individuals, and the ACA expanded access to this by providing income-based subsidies. When you lose your job, you lose access to your employer's subsidy and risk pool. That doesn't change the fact that heath insurance and healthcare is expensive, it's just pointing out that the only way most people can afford to have it is because their employer is paying for most of it. If that cost was more transparent to salaried people, it might spur a more useful conversation about how to bring down the cost of healthcare.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Loughla 7y ago
At our institution, every staff member is required to be a part of the rotation on the benefits committee. Also, we are required (state funded institution) to send out the full cost of every staff and faculty member to them every year. When the letters go out, people open their eyes when they see the institution spent 1/3 of their salary on health insurance. You can tell when someone is on the benefits committee, because they don't complain about salaries for about 3 years.
RandallBrown 7y ago
Depends on the state of course, but some (Washington at least in 2017) have totally free healthcare if you have no income. It was extremely easy to sign up on the healthcare exchange. The coverage wasn't great, but it was free and better than nothing.
pjdemers 7y ago
>> Health insurance has always been available for purchase by individuals Not true. Before Obamacare, anyone with a pre-existing condition was excluded. "Pre-existing condition" means you ever saw a doctor more than once for the same thing. My family was denied because one of my children was in the hospital for a week AT BIRTH. She was 5 when we applied, and not been sick for a day since then.